Are there benefits to independent school at Reception age?

[mr87]

Here is my situation and I am hoping for some insight: My family is moving to the UK next month, and we are staying for 3 years. My oldest is 4 and due to start Reception this year. My husband’s employer will pay for our children to attend any independent school of our choice. We have found a house in a lovely village with a good state school that is walking distance. Meanwhile, the closest independent school that we would consider is a 20 minute drive away. I don’t mind driving, I’m quite use to it, but I keep thinking of all the added benefits of walking to school and engaging in our new community by being a part of the local primary school. Can anyone tell me if there are really any significant benefits to sending my child to an independent school at her age? Keeping in mind that this isn’t long term and we will be returning to the US in 3 years. She won’t reach an age where things such as extracurriculars and testing really matter, I don’t think. So far the only benefit I can think of is that class sizes are smaller at the independent school, but I am not from the UK so maybe there are other benefits I don’t know about. Why else would people be spending £15,000 per year, I wonder. Any insight and opinion is welcome!

@MsTSwift I had never considered that!

Best of luck with everything @mr87. I hope your LEA is as helpful as ours was and that your move goes really well!!

The evidence suggests it is not class sizes that make a difference to attainment, it’s high quality teaching and that can be variable in both sectors.

Children do well in private schools because many parents are well educated themselves and yes, that does make a difference. They also are in a better position to enhance learning outside school. These schools don’t have SEN where children will be low achieving and filter out those who won’t achieve in line with the school’s expectations fairly quickly. Therefore private school DC should do better than some in state schools, but obviously not all. Private schools are used more in London than some other areas too and that skews perceptions and reality.

Class sizes is the biggie. Don't underestimate the impact having 18 VS 30 kids in a class!

One additional point, you will find holidays longer and find it easier to take children out of school at private.... So for example summer is 8 1/2 weeks long in private, state its 6 weeks.

SOmeone else mentiond wraparound care, but private tend to have more clubs etc.

If you need to fly back to the US it'll make a difference to flight availability and cost as holidays longer in private.

With state if you wanted to take your child out for a week, you would mostly have to pay a fine to the local authority. Private this is easier to do. They have more international parents and are more understanding of this kind of thing.

@BubblesBuddy, Private schools definitely take children with SEN! Some don't but most do.

@BubblesBuddy of course some do, but as a sector as a whole it in no way compares to the mixed intake of state schools. So the statement people make of independent schools getting better results is pretty meaningless comparison because it isn’t really saying anything about the quality of teaching.

I think I am the only person that sees a big class as a benefit and is suspicious of small classes . When a friend proudly states there are “only 12 to a class” I am NOT envious- that could be 6 girls or fewer which is not enough ime.

Really? No evidence?

Yes there is no evidence that smaller class sizes make a difference to results. Children’s starting point and quality of teaching (which can be of varying quality across state and private) make a big impact.

Pupils at independent schools do get better results on average than those at state schools. There are obviously lots of factors at play here but class size can’t be discounted.
If you know of any evidence that suggests class size is a factor rather than the starting point/family support/other factors related to the cohort I’d be very interested to see it.

Some private schools will outperform some state, some state will outperform some private, and different children may do better in different schools. If you have the choice to go private that’s great and widens your choices, although the best choice may still be state.

Don't think of them as independent or state. Just think of them as schools, and I'd say go for the one your child fits better in and will likely be most happy in. Early years are all about embedding a love for learning and learning the basics very well so send her where she will have the most positive experience of school.

I had a similar choice to you and have chosen the semi rural primary for primary and then hopefully the independent school for secondary. It's lovely to walk to school and have a chat and go for play dates. Parties are simple and local and there's no competitiveness. Do look at the inspection report and data of both schools but mostly go for the best fit for your child and family.

The ‘no evidence that class size matters’ isn’t a good point. The large cohort studies were done comparing classes of, roughly, 22 vs 26 so completely irrelevant to English indie vs prep, 16 vs 30!

Any teacher will tell you that teaching 16 is a different ball game to having 30. And U.K. schools do have unusually massive classes for that age group.

In terms of attainment, there is little to compare as not many indie preps do the same exams as state primaries. However, there’s an obvious gap between GCSE attainment in academic senior schools vs super selective state grammars (even though the latter are much more selective in terms of the numbers of applicants).

The LEA should have a date somewhere that’s when they let you know if you have a place. It’ll be March/April I would think.
Actually I just googled and it seems to be a national primary place offer day of 16th April. So if you had applied as a normal application, that’s when you’d find out. I’m not sure if you’ll be living here in time to do a normal application? Deadline for our authority was December or January.

Ah yes so I have done the US-UK move a couple of time. Back in the UK now. Your child will be at a huge advantage in 3 years time. Her peers will start school a whole academic year after her so she will go back a year when she goes back. She’ll go into Grade 2 as opposed to Year 3 and there is a real difference in the standard of work. So actually the school move I would worry about is not this one but the next one! You can always drop out of the state school and move to the independent school if that suits. To be honest if it’s a good private school and someone else is paying I would grab that opportunity with both hands. (My employers and my husband’s did this in the US twice and it was very helpful because otherwise my sons would have gone back a year).

www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohamed_Hammad11/post/Who_knows_studies_which_found_empirical_evidence_why_small_class_sizes_have_positive_effects_on_learning_outcomes2/attachment/59d6588e79197b80779ae6db/AS%3A538854454829056%401505484321145/download/The+impact+of+small+class+sizes.pdf

It’s American but a two second google showed me this... and I’m sure with half an hour I could find a lot more!

I’m not saying it’s the be all and end all but it’s disingenuous to say it isn’t a factor at all.

Common sense and experience tells me I can support 15 pupils at a time more effectively than 30.

that could be 6 girls or fewer which is not enough ime

Why can’t she be friends with the boys? Particularly in infant school I don’t think it makes a difference. My DD is year 1 in a class of 16 and has good friends of both sexes

Having said that I think in your situation where you’re intending to return to the US in a couple of years and you have a good village school in your doorstep I’d probably send her there

Thanks apple I’ll have a look at that later.

On these state vs independent threads I always see the ‘local friends’ argument. Perhaps our local village independent is unusual but our experience is over 50% of kids we know at the school live in our village, the next one, or the adjoining market town. Several children live within a 5 minute walk of our home. Some children travel very far to the school but they do so with a number of other children from their town/village so when they go home they have locally living school friends. Unless it is a boarding school surely this must be replicated at a lot of independents? The children come from the surrounding areas, a large number from close to the school, and concentrations from anywhere with a poor local state school. Our DS was at a poor state in reception and Year 1 and our DD in independent. Differences were 30 in a class in state with a part time TA vs 12 in independent with FT TA, no qualified music teaching in state, no after school clubs vs wide choice of activities, daily reading with an adult in independent vs once a week in state, lack of resources in terms of library books/art equipment/sports facilities in state. DS was at a failing academy so I fully accept this is not representative of all states. Our local village state is very small and mixes year groups so if the school you’re considering does that think about how your child would adapt to that. Good luck!

I think there’s no overall right or wrong answer to this sort of question because so much depends on the individual schools in question.

Some independent schools are better than the alternative state school option. Some state schools are better than the nearest independent school.

Independent schools do tend to get better results in secondary school, but as pp have mentioned, there’s a lot of factors contributing to that other than class sizes.

In your position I’d find out as much as I could about the school options now, have a look around both of them as soon as you can after your move, and pick the one that you feel is the best fit for you and your family, whether that’s the independent school or the state school.

This thread has been immensely helpful, thank you everyone. I think I'll proceed in both directions and then take a look around when we arrive.

The very low attaining child is rarely found in private schools. Downs DC are virtually absent for example. With fewer children being able to go to special schools, state schools have far more DC with SEN which is behaviour and emotionally based. These DC are very quickly removed from private schools when other parents complain.

I did use private schools and I saw some poor teaching even with 15 in a class. These teachers would have been unemployable in the state sector. They couldn’t manage, couldn’t teach and shouldn’t have been employed. I know some were not qualified either. Therefore just be careful about comparisons! The best private schools generally are first class but some others are pretty useless!

Bubbles

About three quarters of the private schools in my area are academically selective, so those ones are only interested in children who are capable of being high attainers.
The ones that say they don’t select by ability still talk about academic rigour.

AFAIK there’s no private special schools in my area.

When I moved from the US to the UK I found the independent sector much more similar to the typical US public sector, and most UK state schools lacking in ethos, community spirit, teacher commitment, discipline and extracurricular activities compared to the public schools I went to in the US. Have a look at both options but I assume that the private option will feel a bit more like your local option in the US. At both options they will learn reading, writing and maths, except if one of them is a failing school (read the OFSTED or ISC report).

Yes, Shadow. So if they talk about academic rigour, are they going to take low strainers? Or if they do, not ask them to leave at some point? I suspect they will. When people say private schools cater for SEN they never mean extreme behaviour issues or low IQ children. They always mean relatively mild SEN. Many areas don’t have any special schools and state schools have far more SEN children than they used to. They are definitely not in the private prep schools!

I do believe the op should choose the school she likes but some of the educational attainment for Yr and infant won’t be much different.

BubblesBuddy,

The non-selective indies do often cater for SEN and low attainers. One of the popular indies around me has GCSE pass rates around 55%. When I was shown around, one of the first pair was very obviously on the spectrum. Then I chatted to an older pupil who told me he was very good at music but had recently moved to the school as he was academically weak. The school offers BTECs etc.

So indies do vary...

Go to the local school - it will help you settle in. (Unless it is a totally rough area, but I assume you wouldn't have chosen to live there in that case) After all in the US you wouldn't be ate school yet anyway. It will be more play-led than the independent and be a relaxed easing in.

You can always move for year 1/2 if you feel it is necessary. Some independent receptions are unnecessarily "school/line" with very deal-based, non play-led teacher styles which really aren't needed at reception (I speak as someone who has put two boys through independent selective education in London)

Academically weak in an independent is rarely truly academically weak”. There is a huge difference between what the vast majority of independents say are weak and the reality in state schools. Some DC are struggling to read at 14. They certainly would not be good at music. Being on the spectrum is not the moderate learning difficulties where delay is in every subject. If you have not seen the lowest achieving cohorts in state schools, you simply won’t know. If they were showing you round, you can be absolutely assured they didn’t have emotional or behavioural difficulties. Anyway, Senior doesn’t really count on this thread. However until anyone has seen the really low achievers in the state system, they won’t know that standard independents simply don’t have these DC.

Also 55% pass rate is pretty good for non selective. It’s certainly not rock bottom. Many state schools are way below this. If you took away their low attaining cohort, they wouldn’t be.