Who else thinks only just four years old is just too young for full time for your child?

[DaddyCool]

His Birthday was the beginning of July. All he wants to do is play. I know that reception is fun through play but we've just returned from Canada and they don't start there children on full time until about 6 years old. They are part time for about two years from 4 to 6.

We hate the fact we have to throw him in full time school so early.

They won't delay him until January because they reckon he'll have problems making friends even though 27 out of the 30 children are already in the pre-school and have already made friends

We were under the impression that we could hold him back another year but apparently he would then skip reception altogether and go straight into first year.

Doesn't just four seem just too young to you?

Anyone kept there's back? Are there any alternative options?

ds1 couldn't dress himself at all when he started (I worked like crazy on him over all of the 6 months leading up to it, but he is slight dyspraxic or something, left handed as well). I really did think it might be a problem, but never seemed to be. He said the girls helped the boys (PMSL). Saw that at his birthday party where the girls opened the boys juice cartons etc. He can dress himself now although often gets me to help.

The other problem with staying in nursery is that because most children do start at 4 the other children in nursery can be very young. Because ds1 didn't leave properly until after he was 5 (he was doing part time school part time nursery) he was towering above the nursery kids. That would have been a big problem for ds2.

Haven't read the whole thread, DaddyCool: we were in the same predicament maily because we come from a country where formal education starts at 6.
I wasn't concerned about the "long" day, as ds was used to going to nursery, but about the fact that they actually expect them to learn formally and that somehow, we, the parents, had to play an important role in it (and this is quite a laid back school!). I'm all for supporting my children's education, but believe me, I really struggled with the idea that my reluctand 4 and a half yr old had to "learn" key words.
He started in January, and it's been really hard at times. But they did lots of lovely things as well (songs, farms, lots of dressing up!) and even ds is slowly starting to read and write.

DC, I've just scanned the thread and can see that the head of the school doesn't seem to want to accept any alternatives to full-time, but have you asked about the possibility of keeping ds at home when he's tired (authorised absence) or really pushing the possibility of part-time? As someone mentioned "school" is never compulsory, only "education" in the term after children turn five. IME teachers are sometimes (or pretend to be) unaware of this. Perhaps mentioning to them that you're aware that even if ds is registered at the school it isn't a legal requirement for him to attend full-time until the term after he's five might encourage them to soften their position a bit. I guess there is a risk (think someone mentioned this) of him losing his place if his attendance isn't what they want it to be, but if this is their position, as a parent I'd be seriously worried about the level of compassion being shown by the school, which is a longer term issue of whether you'd want your ds in such a place. FWIW my ds starts school part-time in September, and we've been very fortunate as we had the option of a September start either full- or part-time, or starting full-time in January, and I suspect that if ds isn't ready to go full-time in Jan we'll be able to leave it until he turns five in late Feb. Schools in our area differ radically in their admissions policies - might it be worth looking around your area to see if there are schools nearby with a more humane policy? I think this "sink-or-swim" attitude that some schools have to such small children is cruel. Our education system insists we start our kids so early, gives them shorter holidays than the rest of Europe, and yet our results are poor compared with, e.g., some Scandinavian countries which don't start their children in formal education until 6 or 7 and which, by the age of 11, have far better literacy and numeracy levels than we do.

The only alternative option is home education, which we did consider for ds as a way of delaying him starting school until he's a bit older, but in the end, partly because we live in a rural area with a very spread out and not very large home ed community, and because ds has made good friends at nursery who are all going on to the same school (which as I've said has a very flexible policy on admissions and attendance up to age 5), we decided to try school.

Oh, and on the subject of the head insisting he'll be "just fine", I would take this with a large pinch of salt. You know your ds far better than she does. Don't let her override your gut instincts. He may surprise you and be just fine, but you're absolutely right to be vigilant about this. Too many people place too much trust in certain schools and teachers who aren't actually doing the best for their kids.

feel free to moan daddycool
imo these inflexible arrangements put the needs of the school above the needs of the children.
I have delayed dd1 till January. she will be p/ttill next Easter/
I have copped such a lot of flak for it, esp from ILs who claim she will "never catch up"

I havent read all the posts, Daddycool.
But, my son was born at the end of april 02, and he had no interest in letters and numbers, the days of the weeks, months, etc prior to reception. He was very young for his age. He has now completed his reception year. True it was learning trough play, he did not even realize he was learning, until he started getting homework. He can read simple books now, count to 20, add up and subtract simple maths. He is not behind his peers, he is doing very well academically, but he has had fun and is looking foreward to year 1. He has friends in his class who is born in June and July, and they are also doing well. It might be too big a step to start straight into year 1. I did not think mine was ready, he was. It might not be so bad. Good Luck whatever you decide!

I think that the way it's done on continenal Europe meets - on average - the needs of the children a bit better. A higher number of children will be ready to learn formally at 6 than at 4. Having say that, I find that on continental Europ there's a more positive attitude towards nursery schools (ecoles maternelle, scuola materna, etc etc)

I think if you feel it is too soon, it is.

You could always try it and then, pull him out if it all proves too much.

Do have another talk with the school about him having time off when he is tired or not 100%. Policy may be one thing and reality another.

Did you like his teacher?

Imagine you had stayed another year in Canada, he'd have gone straight into year one anyway.

My two both started at 3 - total madness.

Children start school FAR too early imo.
Why are some schools so inflexible? You only need 2 or 3 children who are plainly not ready for school and it affects the whole class. Far better to say, start everyone together if they must, but monitor children and liaise with parents about tiredness and non-coping behaviour and have a part-time week for one or two terms.
I'm sure most children cope with the activities it's the routine, long day and what is expected of them that is the no-no. Not all children will ask for help for cutting up food, dressing, toileting etc and it is quite stressful for them waiting to be noticed by the teacher or assistant.

thanks for all your input. I think dw just wanted to see that she wasn't the only one who thought four was a bit early and not the only one that had some reservations about the whole thing.

I'm sure he'll be fine but he didn't go to much pre-school/nursery and it feels like we're losing our baby boy.

thanks again.

ds2 was nearly 5 when he started reception, but was not ready at all for full-time - luckily our school is very child-centred and we arranged for him to go for mornings only in the first term, then for the first half of the spring term he stayed for lunch, then stayed for a couple of afternoons and finally in the summer term he stayed for 4 full days, but he had Fridays off. It worked really well esp as his hours changed as he matured. Incidentally, my neice started reception at the same time - her birthday's right at the end of August so she was only just 4 and my sister was very worried about her going full-time - she too arranged for her to go part-time, but after 2 weeks she was clamouring to stay with her friends, so it doesn't necc have that much to do with chronological age, more with their level of maturity

My DD will be 4 next Aug and will start recep in Sept - yes I do think it is too young really. We lived abroad when my elder DD was the same age so she skipped reception, instead went to a kindergarten (like nursery) part time from 3 years until we moved back to the UK, she then started straight into year 1 at the age of 5 and with no problems at all. So yes, I think part time for 4 year olds would be my preference, given the choice. Does your school do a phased start? Mine does which means they go only until lunchtime for the first term, it is also a very small school so not too scary and I know the primary teacher (yes there is one teacher for the whole of primary!) will send them home if they are tired.

Agree it is just wrong. It's 5 up here in Scotland and even that for some children is too young.

Makes me so that there's so much expected of them so young

My DS started reception three months after his 4th birthday and it was far too young IMO (coming as I do from Scotland where it's 5). His school gives out lots of homework as well and it's been a struggle all year to get him to do any of it. He has been absolutely knackered as well, and by the end of each term has been a grouchy crotchety wreck. You can also see the difference in ability from the kids who were five in September.

But, I supppose they have to make the cut off point somewhere.

My DS2 is a June birthday. Luckily we had staggered intake so he didn't start until the January following his 4th birthday.

He did start full days straight away though and I was worried that he wouldn't cope. He has some language delay and was generally slow at all the other stuff like food/getting dressed/wiping as well as being crippling shy.

He managed fantastically. The staff were (are) brilliant and brought him on so well. His language came on leaps and bounds because of all the extra interaction and his personality just bubbled over. If I had realised how well he would do I would have let him start in the September instead.

What's worse DC is that they don't get paid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry! lol (little things tickle me)

DC, my ds was in this position a year ago, his birthday is in August so he was just four years and a couple of weeks old when he started.

It is a horrible position to be forced into. We felt as you do - our ds was not ready. Most people say "oh, they'll be fine" but in fact we have been proved right; ds is NOT ready. He is perfectly bright but physically he is not ready to be writing yet; and the fact that his fine motor skills don't live up yet to his cognitive abilities, HAS resulted in a loss of confidence. And that makes me angry because ds is a sensitive little boy and I had spent four years hard work with him, building his confidence and dealing with him in the best way I possibly could. Had he been given one more year at home I feel he would be way, way more equipped to deal with school.

People also say "oh you can keep them off if they're tired" but I haven't found this easy. Even in RECEPTION I have been grabed by the teacher to talk about my ds' 'Attendance record'.

This whole issue makes me really angry because the government builds school in as free childcare so that parents can be treadmilled back to the workforce, with no regard for the truly healthy development of children, which is a very shortsighted approach IMO.

However on the positive side DS has settled wonderfully at school and has coped with the social side; but that's because he has made a massive physical and mental effort which would have been better saved for next year TBH.

I'd say in your situation DC you really need to lobby HARD for part time starts. Not to do one term of part time for the younger kids is truly awful.

Hmmm. Germany starts children at 6, with the option to delay for a year - many children don't actually start until 7 - although in recent years some parents have been starting their children at 5 1/2, the general culture is very much that it's seen as almost cruel to put a child into school before 6. Most go to kindergarten at least PT from around 3. There is, by all accounts, a big jump and adjustment between kindergarten and school - and then only four short years before (in most areas) children are divided into three school types according to academic ability. I've always been uneasy about the way it works, less because of the starting age per se than because of the strong ideology that any kind of 'learning' is a Bad Thing before the age of 6 or 7* and then suddenly the poor mites are under pressure and in tears about their school reports. (The splitting up at age 10 I find rather horrific). OTOH four does seem rather young for 'formal' schooling on all kinds of levels - I suppose it depends entirely on how it's done. I do think the option of keeping a child back a year is a good thing - especially necessary over here, because school is actually compulsory (another bugbear of mine, as if it weren't I would seriously consider HE when my children got old enough).

*examples: dh was horrified when I told him I taught myself to read at 3. He was convinced my mother must have pushed me. When my nephew was 5 I was visiting and asked him in some context or other if he could read at all yet, and he said, extremely indignantly, 'of course not, I'm 5!'

Ds is only just four and has been in part-time school nursery since Jan, starts reception next Jan.

He already does a school day, in effect, goes to a childminder who does a club for nursery children in the morning and school in the pm. But childminder's is more homely, obviously. She follows the school curriculum but does things like bring a mattress downstairs for them to jump on for phonics when it came to 'M' (little monkeys jumping on the bed).

He was tired by the end of the summer term, though, really needs the break.

Obviously each child is different but I'd try not to borrow trouble before it happens, tbh.

I have one December born and one February so they are not young, but even so I insisted on part time until I and they (not the teacher!) thought they were ready for full time. I also had no hesitation in giving them a Friday off if I thought they were really tired. I have actually done this very occasionally all through their Primary school time - and they are now 11 and 6.

I don't think that going a year late is a good idea - Reception is so important - and it's hard to join an established class.

You may well find that your dc copes better than you think. Children are often surprising and Reception teachers are almost always amazing!

Ah, a subject close to my heart!
My DS1 started reception a week after he was 4, he was too young, but he had a fun time in reception, although he was always the last to do everything.
Year 1 was just too much for him and in the spring term, he was being dragged into school crying every day.
School suggested moving him back a year and we did. (They wouldn't do this now, I have been told)
He is now going into year 5, he is in the correct year in term of maturity, he still struggles with the work, but he is dyslexic.
Now, we are having problems with regards to his transfer to secondary school. We can't get anyone to say that he will be accepted out of year in our local schools.
It's all wrong, I don't know why we can't be more open to parents deciding if their child is ready, or not, like they do in Scotland.
It is a stress that we could all do without, we just want our children to be happy and enjoy school and have the best start in life they can have.

oh blimey isgrass.....your poor ds, and poor you. I hope it sorts itself out for secondary....

and that's quite a thought provoking post. My ds has coped fantastically in lots of ways with reception but he is not ready, still, for much of the writing stuff they do. Reading about your poor ds struggling in year one is so sad and I hope we don't get that. You kind of think you've done with the tears when they've settled into reception

isgrass,
we are keeping my 19th August born DS back a year (he has Global Developemntal delay as well as being young) in the Independent sector but he will probably transfer to state after yr 2 (financial reasons)- so unless we can get him reintegrated into his correct yr grp (which is the lovely heads intention) before then he will miss out on yr 3 as our LEA will not accept children out of correct group (as well as telling us there may not be a place)!!!

It is to do with age at exam entry apparently.

Good luck DC and all others fighting this inflexible system.

Well I work part time but it does mean that ds has to go to nursery full time in Sept, he will be 3.5. Some people don't have a choice but to put their children into full time education when they are very young.

In France they go to maternelle when they reach 2, so that by the time they are 3 they are doing full time school hours, but the learning stuff is centred around play. This is all voluntary but it seems to be the norm to do that. Funny isn't it that nobody says over there that it does the kids any harm, yet over here we have psychologists saying that it does. Different things for different cultures. If you don't make a big deal out of it then it probably doesn't do your child any harm, but if you get all uptight and anxious they pick up on this and feel it themselves.

DD started full time at foundation when she was 3years 7 months. She was a little tired, especially when it came to the end of the week. However, school terms are not that long and with half term and all the other holidays it wasn't too bad. She loves school and was very happy to go in everyday.