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Original poster

Left in the toilet at 4

32 replies

JoBurger · 13/09/2004 13:44

I am hoping someone can advise me.

My dd has just started school. When I collected her on her second day she started to sob on the way home.She then told me that she had asked to go for a poo during the day and was duly taken to the toilets (they are out of her classroom, across a busy general area and have a heavy door to them) by the classroom assistant and left there. She told me she was scared and unable to wipe herself properly. She started screaming and some older children heard her and went to fetch her teacher.

I raised this with the teacher the following day who told me that a: their insurance forbade them from wiping the children - which I can understand and had indeed been trying to get my dd to do this herself with varying degrees of success over the Summer; and that b: if a child wants to go to the toilet(other than on a designated toilet-trip) the teacher/classroom assistant cannot remain with them as they need to be back with the class so as have the correct ratio.

Whilst I understand their reasons behind leaving her, the result is that I feel she could have injured herself being left alone and that she was obviously distressed as it was only her second day. (She now tries to go at home before we leave for school as she HATES going there now)

I just wondered if this was the norm at Reception age.

Thank you (and apologies for going on about POO!)

OP posts:
coddychops · 13/09/2004 13:46

yes the norm a t ours

tis is why I htink kids go to school too early
If htey cant dress themselves and so on its not right
Poor dd

MeanBean · 13/09/2004 13:50

I was going to say exactly the same as Coddy.
The problem here is that kids go to school too early.

At my DS's reception class, they march them all off the loo at the same time, so they have the opportunity to go to the loo whilst being supervised (and if need be, helped) by an assistant. They did this regularly - about every one and a half hours.

soapbox · 13/09/2004 13:51

JoB
It is the same at my DD and DS's school BUT the toilet has no door on it - it is just a row of stalls which is open onto the corridor. They don't get taken there or taken back to the class room (even the nursery children who are 3+) but they at least can get back out once they have finished!

Poor thing she must have been very frightened!

My DS(4) who only started school last week already seems to have rescheduled his poo time to after school. Amazingly adaptable little things that they are

coddychops · 13/09/2004 13:52

remember a teacher sayoing ot me the bestt hing they can know before school is NOT How t hold a pencil but how to go to the loo
dress themselves, share and sit!

Blu · 13/09/2004 13:53

Er - but if the calssroom assistant has to go back to maintain numbers - i.e the other children in the class have an extra minder - that means your dd has no-one at all looking after her! How can that be sensible?
Also quite barmy that teachers cannot help children in the toilet. World gone mad.
Sorry, JoBurger, no help to you at all - but huge sympathies.

nutcracker · 13/09/2004 13:55

If that is their policy then the they should have positioned the reception classroom next to the toilets IMO.

Dd2 has just started reception and she would of reacted in exactly the same way as your Dd had she been left like that.

At Dd's school the reception class is in a self contained unit, with toilets e.t.c.

The only thing dd has mentioned about the toiolet so far is that the teacher told her she could shut the door when on the loo , such an exabitionist .

I definatly wouldn't be happy about the situation and would raise it with the school again.

sobernow · 13/09/2004 14:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fee77 · 13/09/2004 14:05

Poor thing must have been very scared, but i can see it from the schools point of view - the classroom assisstant would basically become a toilet attendent!
It is very bad planning on the schools part - nursery and reception kids should always be very close to the toilet.
As for the wiping, i am afraid the world is in a very sad state, but as a reception teacher i had to refuse to wipe bottoms. There are also problems when children wet or mess themselves or dressing and undressing for P.E. (especially tights). Basically you cannot put yourselves in that position - it only takes a passing comment from a child, that is taken the wrong way......

JuniperDewdrop · 13/09/2004 14:07

Poor dd ditto the loos being in the wrong place for such young children.
I think kids go too young too, my DS1 was almost 5 and DS2 will be 5 when he starts which I'm relieved about

Original poster
JoBurger · 13/09/2004 14:09

Thank you all for your help - really v. grateful. She tells me that what scared her most was not her having to wipe herself (which is improving) but finding her way back to her classroom and opening the main toilet door.

I am cross with myself that I just didn't think about talking to my dd about this before she started. I feel the school could have let us know the procedure - but I can't imagine the school secretary typing a memo headed, 'POO'.

OP posts:
Angeliz · 13/09/2004 14:12

No advice but huge sympathies

Your poor dd, makes me so sad to think of her in that way!
DAFT DAFT policies (i understand the not wiping- i mean leaving her there!!!)

SenoraPostrophe · 13/09/2004 14:13

fair enough about the staff really, but why can't they send the children to the toilet in pairs? It's not so scarey then.

Dd is too young, but that's what we did when I was in the first year of school (at 5). Admiteddly, those being the old days, the toilets were outside and quite a long walk from the classroom, but I don't see why your dd's school can't do that.

sobernow · 13/09/2004 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fee77 · 13/09/2004 14:17

That's a good idea - or maybe have sensible older children just to help out in the first week.
I think you should talk to the teacher - quite often children have fears and no-one talks to the teacher. I am sure she would sort something out till your DD felt more comfortable going on her own. Or maybe you could pop in with DD after school and go through the "walk" together, pointing out things to look for on the way back? Such as plants, poster, books etc.

Easy · 13/09/2004 14:20

I think it's incredibly sad that we have become so paranoid about paedophilia, and so little children don't get the physical and emotional support they need.

I suspect this little girl will hate school for a long time now, and she could go on to develop constipation because she won't go the loo when she needs too. This school rule makes me very very .

Did anyone say sorry to her, for putting her in such an upsetting position? That is something that often gets overlooked by adults dealing with children

KateandtheGirls · 13/09/2004 14:23

I agree that it is completely ridiculous to have the toilets so far away and difficult to get to/from. I think that's the real problem here. Teachers shouldn't have to help with toiletting. Coddy, you're right. Here in the US to enter kindergarten one of the skills they need is to be able to use the toilet independently. (Of course, kindergarten is a year later than reception in the UK.) In my daughter's kindergarten classroom there are a boys and a girls toilet right inside the classroom, which they are encouraged to use whenever they need to.

Original poster
JoBurger · 13/09/2004 14:27

Fee77: Thanks. I did do the walk with her the following day and also asked if they couldn't go in pairs. I was told that they went in pairs at designated breaks but outside of those they have to be left on their own.

Sobernow:As for messing themselves, you know, I just assumed someone would help her. I realise I have a lot to learn in order to prepare my dd more appropriately.

Thanks again; I agree that the lack of a designated loo for Reception is the key.

OP posts:
Tiggiwinkle · 13/09/2004 14:28

My DS developed a fear of going to the loos on his own last year (he was also in reception) and the teacher used to let another child go with him. He will now go on his own, but still hates using the school toilets and waits until he gets home if he possibly can-this seems to be a pretty common thing though.

MeanBean · 13/09/2004 14:39

If schools aren't going to help children who mess themselves in school, they shouldn't be admitting them to school at an age when messing themselves is not uncommon. The problem is that we as parents assume that if schools are accepting our little darlings, they are actually set up to cope with them. And they're not - there's a care gap through which some kids will inevitably fall.

twogorgeousboys · 13/09/2004 14:41

How awful for your little girl.

All the schools I have worked in as an early years teacher had toilets very near the classrooms.

I have been a SAHM for a couple of years but me and my classroom assistant would wipe up/mop up most things! Times have obviously changed.

It does sound as though the school has accommodation issues which need to be resolved. In the meantime, if it were me, I'd have children going in pairs. It WAS always policy to not have children alone anywhere in school, we would always send children in pairs.

Just a thought - I've noticed those Kandoo wipes are sold in boxes of separate sachets now - could your dd take some in to school with her to help her over the bottom wiping hurdle?

Original poster
JoBurger · 13/09/2004 15:00

Thanks to everyone who took the time out to reply to my post.

MeanBean: You are correct - I did assume.
TGBs: Thank you & good idea.

OP posts:
Cam · 13/09/2004 15:06

Sorry your dd had an upsetting experience on day 2 of school. That's one reason why I'm glad dd is at private school: they CAN (and do) help the children in any way, they don't have those LEA rules to worry about. I remember when dd was new in reception at her current school she even used to throw her arms open to hug the (quite strict) headmaster!

MeanBean · 13/09/2004 15:11

But JB, it's not an unreasonable assumption on your part. We've got every right to expect our children to be properly looked after when they're in school. And that means care appropriate to their age and needs. Which at present, isn't being provided in a lot of schools, and if the current fashion for sending kids to school so early is going to persist, then there does need to be a re-think about the type of care these very young children need so that they don't have such horrible experiences as your poor little DD did. Hope it hasn't put her off by the way.

Easy · 13/09/2004 15:23

you know, I was a bit cross that ds wouldn't be allowed to start school until this term (his 5th birthday was 1st Sept), because in terms of reading and numbers etc he was ready last year. But reading this thread, perhaps I'm glad.

jimmychoos · 13/09/2004 15:29

Joburger - I'd actually be pretty annoyed that the teacher hadn't informed you of this episode him/herself. It had obviously upset your DD and I think you should have been briefed and given the chance to ask some questions.

You have my sympathy - my ds has just started too. We did get a 'preparing your child for school leaflet which talked about the skills they would need with much emphasis on the practical stuff like dressing and undressing, wiping himself etc.