Bringing up boys

[hurricane]

Lots of stuff in press today about boys and how they suffer more from stereotyping than girls. Like it's ok for girls to wear pink, blue, red, dresses and trousers etc but nobody would dress their son in pink or a dress without being worried about criticism (of themselves or their son). Girls can play with dolls but also with cars where some parents still won't let their son pick up a doll without being concerned about his sexualtiy.

I think this sort of stereotyping and parenting which adheres to it is a big reason why boys are doing less well at school than girls. Because the very qualities which parents encourage in boys (aggression, strenght, interest in gadgets and cars and speed and football) are not the ones valued in school whereas the communication, caring, listening etc we encourage in girls is.

Not necessarily saying this is conscious (there was that research where a male baby was dressed in pink and given to people to look after who assumed he was a girl and vice versa and their behaviour changed according to whether they throught baby was m or f so they handled boy baby more roughly had less eye contact etc).

I hear so many parents of boys say things like 'he's so much more physical than my dd' and I just wonder how much of this is 'natural' and how mcuh of it is that our perceptions of what it means to be female have changed beyond recognition but our perceptions of what it means to be male haven't changed at all. And now for the first time ever in this country parents aspirations fo their daughters have outstripped those of their sons. Incredible. Any thoughts?

I have a son, he is sensitive, clever, chatty, loving, caring, enjoys arts and crafts etc. He can also be full of boundless energy, enjoys rugby (so do girls), likes playing spies and cowboys and indians etc.

He has done very well at school, although it seems that many boys do not do so well at his school compared to girls. Have had it said to me that boys mature slower so find it harder to sit quietly etc in class.

Can we have a link to the article please?

My DS is 15 months, and my neighbour has a DD the same age. They react in completely different ways to things. My DS is always racing around, he throws toys (not aggressively IYSWIM), he's boisterous. Her DD is much more delicate, she's more precise with her toys etc.

I guess I mean there do seem to be some natural "boyish" traits, but obviously I am speaking from a very limited experience.

we did controlled crying with ds. dh friend who has a dd and did not do controlled crying told us we would "feel differently" about leaving baby to cry if we had a girl! i was incensed!

Imo some boy behaviour is learned. Ds (only 2) loves copying me with the hoover, washing up etc so he isn't yet innately drawn to boy type things,
However compared with his friends who are girls he definitely seems more interested in big objects, things to climb etc, I would have to say that this is a natural interest for ds, not guided by adults (ie he will ask to do these things, rather than we show him how do it). Too young to know how he will do in school.
And other boy behaviour isn't. Levels of testosterone are apparently a factor in energy levels, some boys get a surge around 4? (and levels can differ in girls too I think, though my info is but a sketchy memory so someone else may know more)

Interesting Marsha. But how do you feel about your ds copying you with the hoover etc. I have met a lot of parents who would actively discourage this and even if these kinds of behavours are encouraged at home boys who show an interest in this kind of thing at school get bullied.

I'm still horrified to hear that the biggest 'insult' amongst boys is to be called gay. There is constant policing of boys behaviour (and girls) in the playground by themsleves (and by parents and teachers) in a way that makes them very tense and insecure about their sexuality and masculinity so they feel they need to constantly prove these things.

I've just bought my friends; DS a toy hoover for his second birthday (it's a mini Henry! It really works! ). They are delighted, he loves the big hoover at home and always wants to copying his mummy.

DH is very houseproud, doing the hoovering, dusting etc plus the ironing and lots of the cooking - I hope DS will grow up the same way. Can't imagine discouraging those sorts of behaviours!

Think a lot of it is expectations. When ds plays with hoover in front of family and friends its "ooh he's such a boy, so interested in how things work". Its a hoover ffs he's saying "oh dear, what a mess!". not "where does this widget go?"
He's simply pretending to clean up

lapin - I see the same have 2 oys and a girl they play with the same toys (age dependant obviously) yet my dd is more delicate more dainty and in this house I can honestly say itsnot the way she been bought up

as we speak

p.s I want a mini henry where do you get them from thanks

Mini Henry is 7th item down

The following article explains why boys are falling behind in education:
www.rrf.org.uk/newsletter.php?n_ID=117

Hurricane you know dh and I haven't discouraged it. We bought him a mini-dyson! (because having the 'big hoover' out all the time is a pain). It hadn't crossed my mind that we should stop this and teach him other more boyish behaviour - probably because dh does nearly as much housework as me. (lucky me!). But he also copies his father working on the bike (bmx lol) which would be seen to be more boyish, etc etc
I do think we treat boys on a whole differently though - I have read about how they are handled and agree he gets lots of hanging upside down/ spins etc but as we only have one boy, and no girls it's hard for me to know how different we would be as parents.
2 is so young I can't imagine saying to ds no don't copy us hoovering, it's not for boys. I do find it interesting though that people do.

I had a weird experience the other day. Ds (2 and a bit) wanted it paint my nails and for me to paint his. We did and really enjoyed it. if he had been a girl i would have felt really uncomfortable about it and i would have thought she was trying to be a little woman rather than just enjoying the experience of painting and making a mess

Many of the school assessments ie course work involved lots of writing involved bringing lots of threads together and wide ranging tasks (multitasking) so boys don't do as well but can flourish in 'spark of genius and inventiveness' areas. NVQ seems typical female stuff lots of ticking boxes to show every area has been covered.

I do feel that some typical male behaviours of single mindedness and periods of intense concentration on certain things have some overlap with aspergers/autism (have five boys so have seen it at times)

little lapin your a star have ordered one for ds2 and dd secretly hoping ds1 will love it and use the proper hoover may be waiting for some time I think!!!!

don't mess about get them going on the real thing,

Ds is quite boisterous and 'boy'ie. But he also loves hoovering, cleaning, pink, dolls prams (you know those thin plastic ones that little girls push dolly's in).
I am fine with that. Deep down I think dh thinks it is a bit wierd.

I LOVE Henry. Sil's ds has a dyson. DS loves his cousins and plays with it at every opportunity.

Saddened by hurricanes post. Not her, but what she sees.

IMO the school system ( not the teachers teacher leave me alone) fails boys.

btw if your academically thick - and a boy you can get an apprenticeship in building of carpentry - something which actually is a highly valued comodity and pays extremely well

if your a girl who isn't academically able and not into cbuilding walls or carpentry then your left with hairdressing and childcaring - which are not highly paid (relativley and progressivley)

I'm not sure what i am saying

i think its all flawed!?

I hesitate to post really because I think the big change comes in secondary school (re the attitude to learning) and mine are still in primary school where they are doing Ok (boy/girl).

But I do have concerns for the next step - mine will, most likely go to the local comp. It's an OK school (comparatively - not excellent, but slightly above national average, quite well thought of but not desired iyswim) but one of the most common complaints about it is that it does not engender a desire to learn in the boys - they have some students who do particularly well but they seem to be the self motivated ones.

I don't particularly mind that but I would love for my children to have one inspirational teacher in their secondary school life time - just 1 teacher that inspires their learning and I think it's sad if the boys are not getting that experience.

My ds is 2 and incredibly butch - though he does love the hoover, largely I think because it makes a loud noise!

He loves football (no one does in our house), cars (neither of us can drive) and hitting things.

he also loves numbers, gadgets and watching Dr Who - daddy is a big geek so no suprises here.

He goes to a very PC nursery run by lefty Camden council so it doesn't come from there. His key worker told me that he "doesn't have a feminine side".

I never really bought into innate gender roles before he was born, having never been especially girly.

isn't that the beauty of having children you never quite know what they will be like as children or adults

I have a friend who had 2 children, girl first, then boy (now both entering their teens).

She was amazed about the differences between them, including the fact that the first time he got the hang of lego, he made a gun with it.

My boy/girl twins go through liking things at the same time. Dressing up as fairies, taking dolly prams to the park. Trying to climb trees and walls! and playing football. There dosen't seem to be much difference between them. DS is a bit more clumsy though and not as co-ordinated as DD.

DS is fascinated with the hoover-he finds it amazing that it actually picks up stuff from the floor. You can imagine him thinking 'i really need to know how it does that'....DD isn't bothered by it.

Academically-my other children are doing equally as good at school. ATM!