Bringing up boys

[hurricane]

Lots of stuff in press today about boys and how they suffer more from stereotyping than girls. Like it's ok for girls to wear pink, blue, red, dresses and trousers etc but nobody would dress their son in pink or a dress without being worried about criticism (of themselves or their son). Girls can play with dolls but also with cars where some parents still won't let their son pick up a doll without being concerned about his sexualtiy.

I think this sort of stereotyping and parenting which adheres to it is a big reason why boys are doing less well at school than girls. Because the very qualities which parents encourage in boys (aggression, strenght, interest in gadgets and cars and speed and football) are not the ones valued in school whereas the communication, caring, listening etc we encourage in girls is.

Not necessarily saying this is conscious (there was that research where a male baby was dressed in pink and given to people to look after who assumed he was a girl and vice versa and their behaviour changed according to whether they throught baby was m or f so they handled boy baby more roughly had less eye contact etc).

I hear so many parents of boys say things like 'he's so much more physical than my dd' and I just wonder how much of this is 'natural' and how mcuh of it is that our perceptions of what it means to be female have changed beyond recognition but our perceptions of what it means to be male haven't changed at all. And now for the first time ever in this country parents aspirations fo their daughters have outstripped those of their sons. Incredible. Any thoughts?

my boy/girl children i mean.

I am thinking getting DS (3) a fairy outfit he always dresses up when we go to girls houses but think his dad would have a fit having read OP have decided to do it a girl would get a garage wouldn't she ? he already has a baby and pram

I had some time off work a few weeks ago and went to the One O'Clock club with ds.

We gave him a doll and he threw it on the ground and ran it over with a toy car

I think the the problem that some parents have with pink/dresses/dolls/vacuums/etc for boys reflects what a low opinion society has of girls. Boys don't want to be associated with these things because they are seen as girlish and therefore intrinsically of little worth. How many parents of boys use "girly" as a criticism? I know of lots. Sexual taunts at school have always been a problem for both sexes. And whilst I agree that there does seem to be a problem with boys' education, it doesn't seem to do them much harm in the long run - once they leave school women will earn much less than men, are woefully under-represented in all influential areas of life, still bear most of the responsibility for housework, childcare, elderly care, and are at the receiving end of male violence far too frequently.

my eldest was a traditional boy

my youngest liked to wear my shoes - becuase of the sould they made on the kichen floor, liked to play with prams to race them about, played with dolls an had a "baby" but didn't quite look after it the same as his twin sister

he had a teddy until 3 weeks ago.

my daughter totally hates kids, now as a teen.

i think we can strive too much for gender neutrallity - nature does have her predispositions, its about affording the same opportunities throughout life - to both

My DS is more physical than his sister (but then her walking was delayed ) but she is as boistrous as him and loves rough and tumble, I think she copies him alot.

I wonder whether boys with elder sisters copy their type of play?

There are so many variables and influences on our children that gender can only be part of the story.

I was always banging on about it being nurture not nature, and people's expectations of boys and girls made them the way they were - they are born blank canvasses and we paint on them blah blah blah. Then I had one of each. Eating my words big time!!!!
"Congratulations, katelyle, you've gived birth to another stereotype!"

I know there are exceptions, but my two were textbook gender stereotypes practically from day 1. I have tried - oh how I tried- to bring them up the same, but nature asserted itself and ds had played with dd's train set more in his first year than she had in the previous 5!

mabelmurple - excellent post. I wholeheartedly agree.

One of my friends' sons was crying as a 3 year old, like 3 year olds do. She started to bark at himn to stop and she was yelling at him "Who cries?" "Who cries?" He didn't answer. She answered her own question and said "babies and girls!"

I was far too astounded to say anything to her. I was completely gobsmacked that a) her son was being taught at age 3 that he's not allowed to cry and b) that she was implying girls cry more and that it was unacceptable for him to show any 'weak' female traits.

I have friends and relatives who have a son or two sons followed by a girl and the girl gets to about 1 and they start going on about what a girlie-girl she is.

Of course she is. The minute the little girl first picked up mummy's handbag or spun around in a floaty dress , they squealed with delight and gave her lots of positive attention, reinforcing in the little girl that it is a good way to win her parents' approval and attention. I very much doubt they made as much fuss each time their son tried mummy's shoes on or went around telling people he's a girlie-boy.

I've noticed how people have more distaste for bossy girls than bossy boys. When little girls are role playing and the most confident, imaginative girl is delegating roles to the other girls, they get labelled bossy. When boys are role playing and the most confident, imaginative boy is delegating roles to the other boys, the parents look upon them and declare them cooperative and a strong leader!

mslucy - I wonder what you did when your son threw the doll to the ground and drove over it. Did you laugh and look at your friends and shrug 'typical boy'? Or did you, like the mothers of girls, softly say 'oh poor baby, it's not nice to run over the baby.'

Because 2 year old girls often roughly handle their dolls too but mothers tend to step in and show them the right way to handle a baby, however sub-consciously they do it.

Regardless of their different energy levels, tendency towards using gross motor skills or fine motor skills, use of the left or right side of the brain - I think both genders deserve to have the same life skills expected of them them and the same common traits encouraged.

Men and women who are successful in life usually demonstrate some similar traits. Those who demonstrate the extremes of girlie-girl and butch-boy tend to be less successful.

My boys love playing with a wide range of toys, they love their toy Vac and like to help clean, and put washing in machine etc. My oldest also likes to push a pram around at his nursery school. To be honest, I like it. I want him to be a good hubby and father (ok I know he is only 4!), there is no shame in him pushing a buggy round. It's good practice!

my boys are very male in that they run around like crazy, are very boisterous, love rough and tumble and spend a lot time playfighting like a couple of puppies.

but they are both quite soft too-ds1 especially. he is quite empathetic, and has his feeling wounded quite easily.
i would never dream of telling them they weren't allowed to cry

my standard thing if they fall and hurt themselves is to say something like'that must have really hurt -you have a good cry until it feels better'

they have a doll and a pram and a toy cooker and hoover etc all of which gets played with. ds2 especially likes his 'baby'. and he is very gentle with it.

i think nature palys a big part but so does nurture.

My ds wears pink - it's cool

This is all so true, but a lot of gender stereotyping comes from elsewhere. My dd tells my ds that he cannot wear pink becasue it is a girls colour. It is possibly subconcious tho becasue dh will never wear pink so maybe they have picked up on that.

Dd is happy to dress up as ds, but he will not return the favour. I have never implied one way or another, but they get a lot I beleive from school and nursery.

ekra - I so agree about the 'bossy girl' bit.

I am not sure that boys are more physical, except in their build, being bigger generally than girls the same age. My dd is a real tomboy and loves to pay on the playground, monkey bars etc. Ds (17 mths younger) does too, but he is naturally more cautious and will not try something he does not know he can achieve

I had DS1 , then DD and now DS2, so we have far too many toys for both genders round our house. DD never played with DS1's cars, trains etc, and is very girly. DS2 has the choice of both and plays with the cars, trains, garage etc. I'm sure I brought them all up the same, at least in the first few years - they have naturally picked what they like and it is very stereotypical!

I was so concerned about the stereotypying of girls and boys and how (at the time) girls were considered so inferior, that I refused to dress DD1 (21) in pink. I went into absolute agonies the first time I put her in a (blue) dress . My peers thought I was weird and MIL was most upset that her only gd was always dressed as a boy.

DD1 never sat still for an instant and was much more physical than her brothers. It used to really wind me up when friends with just boys would say "girls are quiet" or "girls play nicely" when mine clearly didn't. She didn't play with dolls or cars, though both were provided.

There is a difference between girls and boys but it is more to do with the personality of the individual child. I had 3 boys after DD1 who are all totally different. DS3 is far more girly than DD1.

DD2 wears nothing but pink and frilly... time will tell how she turns out