Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Attending Church, purely to get to a certain school

611 replies

sleepydad3000 · 04/03/2019 06:05

They're aren't many things I feel so strongly about, but this issue is one of them. I am currently looking at schools for my daughter. I am a non religious person and my partner is a none practising Catholic, doesn't go to church at all anymore.

I personally think it's wrong on a moral level to exploit a church for 6 months or however long, just to get your child to a certain school. It's almost like, "Oh hi, yes thankyou, I've got what I needed, you'll never see me again!"

2 schools near me are both decent, 1 outstanding and 1 good (Ofsted ratings) interestingly enough, the NON Catholic school has the higher mark as of 2017.... just saying. Both schools are great in my view, religion aside. But I'd feel awful and wrong and like I was cheating or manipulating the system, just to get my girl to a certain school, and then waving bye bye to the church after, as I know for a fact, my partner and I have no intention of going to church afterwards.

OP posts:
MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 15:40

Property rights are at the very core of the issue.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 15:41

Oh really, longestlurker, the state cannot change the law at will to suit itself Shock

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 15:41

They really aren't, but given you are not in charge of the world I don't need to spend any more time explaining to you why not.

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 15:44

Maria I suggest you go and read a book about law. Any introductory one will do. You seem to have a really quite astonishing misunderstanding about what it is.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 15:44
Hmm
MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 15:45

LOL MariaNovella I think there are many who would argue that during the Thatcher years the government / state did precisely that!

Gah, this thread is like a scab I want not to touch but just can't help picking.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 15:49

We don’t live in North Korea.

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 15:50

It is called parliamentary sovereignty.

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 15:51

It is nothing at all to do with North Korea. It would not be to suit itself anyway bit for the public good.

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 15:53

We don't live in the Republic of Gilead either.

prh47bridge · 07/03/2019 16:03

I am simply asking that government legislate so that the admissions process be prevented from religious discrimination against children. Absolutely nothing to do with property rights at all

If you did that the Catholic schools would all close. Every single one of them. The Catholic church has always been clear that it will not allow its schools to operate if they cannot prioritise children of Catholic families. Some schools of minor faiths would also close. The CofE schools would be less of an issue - I would expect most of them to carry on. So you would be faced with a huge bill to set up schools to replace those that had closed. You would either have to buy the land and premises used by the closed schools at full market value or buy other land and build new premises from scratch.

longestlurkerever · 07/03/2019 16:07

There is evidence to the contrary if you care to look for it.

MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 16:09

prh47bridge if they could no longer discriminate and all the Catholic schools shut up shop, I would love to see what all the attendees of the schools had to say about it, what the public at large had to say about it and what kind of a PR disaster it would be for the Catholic church. Bring it on!

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:23

The French tried to bring Catholic Schools into the state system in the 1980s. Massive PR coup for Catholic Schools - they won and have gone from strength to strength.

MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 16:29

Given that over 80% of French schools are state schools, where they don't even teach RE, I find that assertion questionable. Laïcité (secularism) is one of the main precepts of the French republic.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:36

What are you questioning? 20% of school places in France are within private state subsidised Catholic Schools.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:40

And the failure to integrate Catholic Schools into the state system brought down the PM and the Education Minister. There were massive street demos across France in support of Catholic Schools.

MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 16:45

I'm questioning the assertion that it was a massive coup for the Catholic Church. This was back in 1984 and the French are renowned for their street demonstrations.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:47

It was massive coup for Catholic schools and they have gone from strength to strength. Catholic Schools are incredibly popular in France.

MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 16:55

Great, delighted for them. Parents pay a fee to send their kids there - wonderful.

State (or public) schools in France that any child can go to are non-denominational.

Not sure what your point here is?

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:56

The fees at Catholic Schools in France are very low. Teachers’ salaries are paid in full by the State and public funds contribute to upkeep of buildings.

MariaNovella · 07/03/2019 16:59

The point is that French Catholic Schools, like English Catholic Schools, are very popular and attempts by the state to undermine them are, contrary to what you claim upthread, a PR coup for Catholic Schools rather than the state.

floribunda18 · 07/03/2019 17:00

I think it's wrong that any state school can select on the basis of how religious someone is. In fact, how religious their parents are, it's not as if the child has any say over it.

So if parents game and subvert this ridiculous system to their own advantage - good. All power to their elbow.

MargoLovebutter · 07/03/2019 17:06

I don't care what level the fees are in private French schools. I just don't.

I don't care if Catholic schools are popular or not. If the people of France wanted the option of private Catholic Schools for their kids, good for them.

I want the UK tax payer not to have to fund religious discrimination against children in the UK. France can do what its tax payers want.