Private schools are not a choice

[daddiesrule]

Having read a few threads about private schools recently, I found an article on the DM which wound me up massively. It stated that sending your DC to private school was a choice; am I the only idiot who thinks this isn't true?

It's only a choice for those who can afford it - if your salary is not large enough to cover it, it is definitely not a choice. Why should children who have parents in low paid jobs not have the same access to education as those with parents who earn significantly more?

Secondly, the whole reason state schools are so poorly funded is because of private schools. If all MPs and political donors were forced to use the state sector, I reckon funding for education would increase over night.

It seems unreasonable to justify having a poorly funded education system because some affluent parents have to option to pay to avoid it. This is the opposite of social mobility.

Education threads are so funny on here, there's either no difference or private education is much worse or much better.
Mnet doesn't appear to know which grin

Hardly surprising, when you consider a)that MN is composed of diverse individuals with diverse views and experiences, and b)that it is impossible to make valid generalised comparisons between private schools and state schools because all schools are different.

Some private schools are better than some state schools. Some state schools are better than some private schools. Sometimes, there is little to choose between them. If people are lucky enough to have the funds to be able to choose, most will be choosing between a specific range of schools and they will make their choices accordingly.

In our circumstances, we did not feel that the private options in our area were better than the state options that were available to us, and boarding is not an option that we would have considered, so we chose state. However, it's easy to see why people with a different set of circumstances might choose differently.

Alexa

My point was it chooses to fit. A thread saying private is better has a resounding no it isn't and that state is.
That is until we talk about privileges and unfairness, then of course private is better. It's hilarious.

Paid for education tends to do more to improve children's life outcomes for several reasons.

Parents who value education and the opportunities it opens up, will prioritise it above driving new cars or fancy holidays.

They will buy the worst house if it moves them into the catchment area they want. Or simply pay the premium for a house in the catchment for a really good state school. Or look for jobs in areas with decent grammars and tutor or pay for private prep schools to get their DC into them.

If they earn enough to pay, the odds are that they are smart enough to value education's role in their success, to want it for their children and to have passed their intelligence through genetics to produce clever children, who may qualify for bursaries and scholarships.

At the risk of being flamed, most kids in private education have clever well educated parents in professional jobs, and have inherited their parents' abilities. Otherwise the income would not be there to pay. There were plenty of white vans in our local independent school's car park between 7.30 and 7.45am, but the parent dropping off was often dad on his way to run the site, not the casual bricklayer.

It's about how you spend your disposable income, as well as how much you have. None of this is going to comfort anyone on a low income with a promising child in an area where the state provision is mundane and the employment landscape is inhospitable.

The % of families living off their rents and sending stupid children to expensive academic schools is vanishingly small and has been for 30+ years -- whatever the Guardian and Mirror say.

I am reminded of an old (and very brutal) adage: Life is like a sht sandwich; the more bread you have, the less sht you eat.

None of this is going to comfort anyone on a low income with a promising child in an area where the state provision is mundane and the employment landscape is inhospitable

That's us and there are about a thousand or more families just like us, the casual bricklayers. We do exist, just not in so many numbers. Social mobility does still exist, but not nearly enough.

It is a choice op of course, just not one that is open to everyone.
It is equally silly to say that private schools are the reason State schools are poorly funded.

Private schools are a choice.

It’s not a choice that’s available to most people, but it’s still a choice.

The Blair government abolished the assisted places scheme as elitist, but most fee-paying schools run bursary schemes.

Of course it's a choice just like anything else in life if you have the ability to pay.

None of this is going to comfort anyone on a low income with a promising child in an area where the state provision is mundane and the employment landscape is inhospitable

The government pays most of dd’s fees because she is deemed to have talent.

Well yes 8ts an option for some people who can afford it or can find a way of getting a reduction on fees. But isn't everything a choice? We could afford it but moved house for excellent free education instead. That too is a choice. Everything in life is a choice.

Working as a casual l bricklayer is a choice. One that means private education will likely be unaffordable without a fees reduction.
We all are the product of our choices.

Some people make sacrifices to send their dc to ps. They may remortgage for example. I haven't but my dcs state school was very good.

Like some people use private healthcare who can.

Secondly, the whole reason state schools are so poorly funded is because of private schools.

This is completely wrong ^

^agree, completely incorrect.

our choices aren't made in a vacuum though so its silly to say everything we do is a choice as if we all have the same starting point and same set of options available to us on day one and then what happens after that is entirely our own doing.

Dd currently attends boarding school, she got in on a scholarship so we do receive some help with her fees.
Still lots of unforeseen costs though. The school is very generous in help - eg school ski trips / diving holidays are half price if you get help with fees. So far Dd has been to Colorado / Mexico / NZ (not jealous, honest!)

Private schools are obviously not a choice for everyone though. I attended a grammar school which had a prep school attached. There was a lot of snobbery towards the girls who came in at 11 from the prep school girls. I hated the first term, it was torture but then settled in. I still remember the attitude of them and us.

Sadly, like an awful lot of things, it all comes down to money. Lack of money curtails choices in so many things.

@Comefromaway what scheme is that the government are paying for your school fees? I know a lot of the schools offer discounts or bursaries, didn't know about government paid.

It is often a choice. People who shout loudest about elitism often don’t think twice about blowing thousands every year on holidays, expensive clothing, adornments and cosmetics, eating out, the latest phone because their 6 month old one looks a tiny bit different. But (yes, starting with a but, poor grammar I know!) that’s somehow perfectly acceptable.
Some people prefer to invest in the future how they best see fit (or what’s left of it after bloody Brexit ...), dress from charities, valiantly keep their hand me down phone going against all the odds and go camping. No-one else’s business.

But then in a society that lauds and throws awards and many pounds at people whose only talent is kicking a ball in the right direction, lip-syncing to recorded tracks or having the most appealing abs on a tropical island whilst lambasting others who (supposedly at the moment, to be fair 😁) are trying to run the country for being over-paid while they earn a minuscule fraction of the former’s “rewards”, it ceased to surprise me long ago. Our society has some very questionable priorities.

Rant over, I’ll get my coat.

The whole 'sacrifice' argument always raises my hackles. As if we could all send our children to private school if we only give up cappuccinos and handbags and drive an old banger. I follow these threads with interest and there are some people who cannot grasp that mathematically if school fees exceed your entire annual income then no amount of sacrifice will work. If you can afford private school through making sacrifices that is a whole load of fripperies and non-essential expenditure in the first place.

If you are lucky enough to live in a place with good state schools, and there are plenty of them despite what some posters would have you believe, then the gulf tends to be between private schools and good state schools at one end, and poor state schools at the other. Rather than simply a state/private divide. Many children go to top universities from state schools whose parents have never spent one penny on their education. Reading Mumsnet sometimes would give the impression that this is impossible.

I also think that analogies with posh cars and anything else private like healthcare are irrelevant really. Having a Mercedes or your knee replacement at the bupa hospital does not translate into recruitment into whole swathes of top professions. Or have a whole-society effect. They are also not compulsory like education is. There are no adequate comparisons with private school.

*isitheck

Yes you’re completely right. It is unattainable for most. But if people do have disposable income, what they choose to spend it on is entirely their business. What gets my hackles are people complaining loudly about elitism while booking their jolly to Disneyland. We could afford one or the other, we chose school (get away from London and the Home Counties and fees drop sharply and ours achieved scholarships). No-one else’s concern.

So many sweeping generalisations here.

Ime most people who say they can't afford private school genuinely can't. If your household income is low then how can you? Termly fees of ~£4k is £12k per year. My husband earns exactly that amount. We couldn't live off my salary alone. Ergo no private school for our dc.

The "we can't afford it but holiday abroad, go out loads and spend it on facials" are propping their life up with credit and couldn't sustain the money private school requires.

Lictie - the MDS & DaDA schemes.

Some Local Authorities also pay private Special School fees.

I think for many people it is a choice but one which they would be unlikely to make because the sacrifices are too big.
I have a choice. I could sell my house, move me and my three kids into a one bed flat in a cheaper area and use the money to send my kids to private school. I’m not going to because I don’t think the benefits of private school would outweigh the disadvantages of living in a small flat in a not very nice area. But I do have that choice. It’s just not the same kind of choice as someone who “only” goes on holiday twice a year in order to afford fees...