UK education system bottom ranking

[coulis272]

So I have a question

Is the education system in the UK really that bad when compared with say the likes of Spain, France, Italy, Greece etc? I have had several individuals from these specific countries say to me that they absolutely abhor the schooling system here and the children learn absolutely nought. How there is far more actually taught in said countries and you would have a child of the same age know four or five times what a British child would know.
What do you all think?

Also how we work toward becoming more specialist in certain areas whereas in said countries say a lawyer for instance would cover everything under the umbrella of being one.

That they are talking nonsense.

whereas in said countries say a lawyer for instance would cover everything under the umbrella of being one.

What does that mean?

What is your experience of education in different countries @coulis272?

(This topic is remarkably similar to another thread...)

Is the education system in the UK really that bad when compared with say the likes of Spain, France, Italy, Greece etc

Yes, the trouble with the UK is lack of consistency. Different types of school. Different subjects taught in different schools. Different philosophies from each school's governors/heads, etc. Some schools are world-beating, others are really crap. Without any consistency, it'll never improve.

While there are problems with the UK education system (can you be more specific about age group?) there are strengths too. Our top universities are world class and despite being a small country we create more than our fair share of scientists, inventors, artists, athletes, writers, actors etc

I have cousins who were raised in Slovakia and another set in Germany and another in Hungary. We all attended state schools. They are all far more educated than I am in terms of languages taught, breadth and depth of maths taught, history, geography etc. We all studied to at least degree level traditional subjects (think law, economics, medicine) and my sibling and I would say our education was no where near as comprehensive as that of my cousins. My other relatives who attended private schools in Australia and went to uni studying traditional subjects also give the impression of having had a far better education than I received. In my workplace there are several people from the Ukraine and again they all speak severest languages and seem to have a better general knowledge of world politics, history and geography than I have. My education was superficial and I was taught the basics to pass exams. I have no deep knowledge of any subject other than my degree subject. Of all those family members I can think of I hold the most qualifications and consider myself one of the least well educated. Issues with education in England I think are poor resourcing and in some schools a lack of discipline.

I don't know about the countries in the OP, but it is true for the one EU country that I do know well. By the end of school, students typically have read several high-brow novels in foreign languages (not translated), speak English well enough to get a job here and a broader knowledge of maths.

The difference is that we have no-child-left-behind, herd everyone up and move forward together mentality and they don't.

Ummm... well, I think you might find the UK is ahead of all the countries you mention in the PISA rankings.

I think you have to be careful comparing apples with apples - it's statistically likely that mobile Europeans will be better educated and motivated than the average national. I work in an industry that necessarily employs young graduates from all over the world. They are all bright and so a highly educated if you like sample - I would not say the non uk nationals were obviously better educated than their uk peers and certainly not better at maths / problem solving. I agree our school system is hit and miss and does not segregate as much as some (France/ Germany) as others.

There is no such thing as a "UK" or "British" education system. Each country has its own education system.

When people say "British education system", I always assume they mean the English one.

Scotland has its own, which historically was better than the English one (IMHO!), but it's been going downhill ever since politicians started to interfere in it (pre-devolution it benefited from benign neglect). Isn't Scotland below England on the Pisa rankings now?

Northern Ireland was even better than Scotland historically. (I think it has something to do with fewer opportunities so a good education had a bigger chance of making a difference to your life chances.) N. Ireland took on the English national curriculum stuff a few years ago though (I think?) and people say it's worse for it.

Wales - they do GCSEs too but they have their own exam board.

When people say "British education system", I always assume they mean the English one
Jeez, next we'll be going back to flying Union Flags at England football matches.

Our top universities are world class and despite being a small country we create more than our fair share of scientists, inventors, artists, athletes, writers, actors etc

Yes, indeed, but that's universities, not schools, and among the world leading Uni's, there are a fair few ex-Polys which are pretty dire.

I don't think there is a huge difference between curricula between the different countries in the UK. The UK excels in 'every child matters' in comparison to other European countries but is vastly behind in content for the core subjects. The new GCSE/a level specs that have a greater content and less critical thinking may bridge that gap. In terms of MFL we are shamefully behind.

One of the issues that is specific to the UK is that pupils get to elect subjects earlier than in most other systems, meaning that it is possible to choose not to study subjects considered core in other countries beyond the age of 14.

MFL provision is beyond a joke in the U.K.

Many island nations like Japan and the UK are weak in languages. In the case of the UK I think that it will get even worse after Brexit. We need EU nationals to teach European MFL to UK children and there is a teacher shortage so you'd hope that the post Brexit immigration system will make it easier to hire language teachers.

Many education systems are a one size fits all system so acceptable if you're average or higher, terrible if you are not so academic.

We need EU nationals to teach European MFL to UK children and there is a teacher shortage so you'd hope that the post Brexit immigration system will make it easier to hire language teachers.

Brexit is most unlikely to improve the situation for European MFL teachers. Teacher pay and conditions get worse and worse in the UK and teachers need long term security in order to move country. They are not short term seasonal workers.

What makes you say that?

Not much. But I’m not the one who is making these claims. I’ve stated that other parents from these particular countries have said this

So why is it that many come here for the sake of a better education? Why don’t we see a huge influx of British nationals going over to said countries for the sake of academia?

What I mean is that they have claimed professionals such as lawyers would cover all areas and so if you see a lawyer in one of the countries listed, they would know all there is to know about the law. Their expertise would span the entire range of areas with in law.
Whereas here you see a lawyer and they would only have authority over a specialist area such as family law, commercial law etc.

I had my German penpal come to school with me in the 1980s. I had an excellent maths teacher at the time and I can remember her saying that we were really behind her class.

We do not invest enough in education in this country so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of countries are doing better than we are.

Schools have improved massively since the 1980s though.

I think part of the problem with MFL is there’s no obvious 2nd language and so it’s left to individual schools to decide which language to teach. It’s very different to being in a country where the curriculum says English is taught from the start of primary to the end of secondary and there might also be an obvious choice for the second mfl as well. Whereas in the UK you could end up studying one language at ks2 and a different one at ks3.

It isn’t inconceivable to impose a second language or perhaps two second languages in a geographical area. Other countries manage to do this - English is not always the first foreign language taught in schools in non-English speaking countries!