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40% of top grades to private pupils

312 replies

Judy1234 · 24/06/2007 16:06

That's astonishing - 70% of physics teachers in the private sector have a physics degree and 30% in state schools.

44% of A grades in French and German to private pupils.

40% of A grades in science and languages from private schools.

Yet they educate 7% of children.

" Private school pupils earn 40pc of top grades

By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent, Sunday Telegraph

Private school pupils win 40 per cent of all the A grades awarded in England in science and modern languages A-levels, figures have shown.

With the independent sector educating just 7 per cent of children, the statistics demonstrate hugely disproportionate achievement at the highest level in some subjects.

The dominance of private school pupils in two major areas of study helps to explain the difficulties that leading universities face when trying to increase their state schools intake. Admission tutors seeking the best-qualified candidates struggle to meet Government benchmarks for the proportion of undergraduates from comprehensives and poorer backgrounds and, in some departments, private school pupils vastly outnumber state school ones.
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Alan Smithers, the director of the centre for education and employment research at Buckingham University, said: "These results show the iniquity of the top universities having to account for themselves in terms of the backgrounds of their students.

"The reason for the concentration of good results in the core subjects of science and languages is that independent schools recognise that they open up future opportunities for pupils. Universities are being expected to compensate for the failure of some of our secondary schools to provide opportunities in these subjects. In the private sector, 80 per cent of physics teachers have a degree in physics. In the state sector, just 30 per cent of those teaching physics are qualified to that level in the subject."

The data, published in response to a parliamentary question, shows that 44 per cent of the A grades awarded in French and German last year went to pupils in private schools, as did 36 per cent in maths, 38 per cent in physics and 37 per cent in chemistry. On average, 40 per cent of A grades in sciences and modern languages across the country were gained by sixth formers from private schools.

Subjects perceived as harder to do well in remain a major focus in private schools. State schools, under the pressure of government league tables, are said increasingly to be encouraging pupils to go for better grades in "easier" subjects.

Sam Freedman, the head of research at the Independent Schools Council, said: "Independent schools don't allow children to take the easier options because they are not made available.

Fewer than half of schools in the sector offer media studies, for instance. We support traditional subject areas like the sciences and languages because they are a better grounding and because universities such as Oxford and Cambridge have made it clear that these are the kind of A-levels they want.

"Many universities would not have maths, science and French departments if it were not for the independent sector providing high quality candidates."

The achievement gap between the independent and state sectors is expected to increase further when the A* grade at A-level is introduced in 2008. Research carried out in 2003 by the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance, the exam board, found that independent school pupils were up to five times more likely to achieve marks at the upper end of the A grade at A-level than their state school counterparts.

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Judy1234 · 28/06/2007 23:56

You need a peg to get children interestied, that's true.

I see today's news - science and languages to be included in the league table scores so that might help in encouraging some schools to move to the "proper" GCSE subjects the private schools mostly do.

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DominiConnor · 29/06/2007 08:21

Here, I'm not focusing upon the kids in the rose tinted world that B&W lives in. Also, I'm realistic that there are kids who I can't think of any way of motivating. Thus between the motivated kids and the unmotivatable is a huge wedge who could go either way.
I don't even claim this sort of thing will help the majority of them.
I think we should have a wider range of people being used to inspire kids to try harder. City types are a good source, but there are plenty of others.
But we must give up on sportsmen big time.

drosophila · 30/06/2007 17:48

Why the downer on sports people. My friends sister is te England Captain at Netball (not my fav sport but she is deffo a committed sportswoman) and is employed by a top private school to give lessons on Netball. I think she is an inspiration to anyone when she tells the story of not being allowed to play Netball for her school because the teacher was racist. I'm not sure if she tells that story but it is a great story don't you think. Not unlike your own DC a tough schooling and now look at you

DominiConnor · 30/06/2007 21:14

OK, I have no issue with netball, or any other of the "minority" sports. But even if you include netball, archery, curling et al, there is a vanishingly small chance of a kids succeeding in them.
I'm all for stories of kids overcoming racism, and especially where that involves education. Even though white and male, I've suffered from bigotry in education, class based rather than race, but bad, if not as bad.
Being inspiring is not enough. You've got to inspire them to do the right thing.
I don't think sport is what we should be inspiring kids to try for, at all.
Kids love sports, those who are going to make it, love it more. Dregs like me, just resent being dragged through the mud and assaulted by Neanderthal teachers of questionable sexuality.
I know quite a lot of teachers and a good % of them are pissed at games teachers who undermine their attempts to get kids to work hard by telling them that they will succeed at sport, and often taking them out of lessons.
If a physics teacher told a kid to skip French, he'd be in deep shit, why is it different for sport ?

Why the downer on sports people. My friends sister is te England Captain at Netball (not my fav sport but she is deffo a committed sportswoman) and is employed by a top private school to give lessons on Netball. I think she is an inspiration to anyone when she tells the story of not being allowed to play Netball for her school because the teacher was racist. I'm not sure if she tells that story but it is a great story don't you think. Not unlike your own DC a tough schooling and now look at you

drosophila · 30/06/2007 23:18

You know I think inspirational stories can be enough.

DominiConnor · 01/07/2007 09:44

Inspirational stories need realism to be effective. The ones I got at school were absurdly unlikely, even if based upon real lives.

Judy1234 · 01/07/2007 12:05

OUr psychological health is better if we exercise so that's a good reason to have children do some sport each day. Also some of my children have benefited a lot from their sports (as hobbies, not careers) although clearly it's not the best career path to follow assuming you're going to be the next Beckham which is an unlikely goal.

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DominiConnor · 01/07/2007 15:12

Indeed, and that's another reason for stopping the use of sportsmen as icons posing as role models.
Games teachers focus upon those kids who have potential, and those they feel they can bully because they are crap. No other subject teacher would get away with assualt on a kid who simply lacked the ability to do the subject.
Kids should be taught how to maintain their bodies, sport can be a vital part of that.

However sport at schools is like we taught history as if we expected all kids to make use of it's examples when they lead an army to invade Persia.

drosophila · 01/07/2007 23:16

DC I am curious how do you explain your success given such a tough schooling?

DominiConnor · 02/07/2007 09:49

Bloody mindedness ?
But also a big dollop of luck.
The middle class arts graduates in charge of getting computers into schools, blundered big time.
A computer terminal was supposed to be put in the posh school down the road with a very similar name. But it turned up in ours.

There was a struggle lasting years, but in the meantime we got hold of it, and a few of us taught ourselves programming. The relationship with the staff varied from supportive to quite prickly.
At one point, it just seemed easier for the outside world to think I was a teacher, as I didn't think it necessary for them to interfere.

drosophila · 03/07/2007 16:25

DC that reminds me of a story my Dad used to tell. he worked on the railways in the West of Ireland based at a tiny station. One day a whole heap of trucks turned up to build a bridge connecting platform 1 to platform 2 (there already was a bridge connecting them). Now all the men at the station knew that platform 2 was never used and figured it was for a different station. They said nothing and spent a lot of time chuckling to themselves watching the men hard at work. Sure enough the bridge was intended for a busy station about 50 miles away with a similar name.

Anyway fortune favours the brave

drosophila · 03/07/2007 16:29

As far as I know there were no Arts graduates involved

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