Independent school bursaries

[Thiswillpasssoon]

My DC has finished her 11plus exam and got quite high score. People ask me why not try independet schools but simply we can't afford it. Our single income is about 100k and we own 2 properties so partial bursaries might be offered but not full I guess.
Some people say if the kids are super smart and talented then no matter what income is they will be entitled to 100% bursaries. I actually checked this with several school websites but they only wrote the bursaries are totally up to each house's financial matter. Does anyone know about this? Or any experience?

I know that some parents who are self employed cheat on their income and apply for full bursaries. I am in a foreign community and we are quite open about private stuffs with each other so I am aware of these. My DC's friend's parents own a company but they receive cash only so could get full bursary from top private. I know they spent 1k for tutiin every month and every term holiday they travel abroad. Another parents I know owns 4storey building but registered as low income. They will also apply for full bursary.
I feel its quite unfair and when they are entitled to full bursaries they say it's because of their children's ability only.
I know its not my business but I feel a bit down.

You have £100,000 a year and two properties and you think you can't afford private education? You are aware that some of us do it on less than half that income...?

I can’t think of any schools that give bursaries to those earning 100k. The moral thing to do in your case is sell one of your properties to fund the education because you can only live in one house at a time.

You could afford it - by economies or liquidating a property for example - but are choosing not to. Unlikely to get a bursary with a 6 figure income and assets ime. Dc might get a scholarship if academically exceptional but these tend to be token reductions on fees, or in kind like free music lessons on a music scholarship.

Your going to get slated. It's all relative. Those doing it on half the income might have no other option or have different expectations. The 2 properties might be the pension fund and currently have little capital value. Maybe they are carrying significant debt.

If you live in an expensive area £100k does t go very far especially if you have a mortgage to pay and it's not always possible or financially sensible to downsize.

I've posted about our situation too. I haven't got the properties, similar household income but tonnes of explainable debt. The schools I have spoken too have told me to apply. Anecdotally I have heard of the public (but not smaller indis) doing exactly what you describe for the very talented all rounders. Schools are a business and they need the very top grades to keep on coming.

I'm not looking for a 100% though - I would be over the moon with anything around 25%.

Why don’t you enter your DD for independent school scholarship exams instead of going for bursaries? They are non means tested and based on her academic ability. Or grammar schools? You have missed the deadline for this year though so it would have to be a late application. Did you put state schools on her secondary school CAF?

Even if the second property is a pension fund, it is immoral to have assets which can be liquidised without leaving you in need and expect a bursary which really should be given to children from lower income families whose parents cannot realise any assets to fund the education.
Private education is a luxury so if sacrifices can be made to fund it they should be made if you really want that education. The OPs child has already passed the 11+ so can presumably have a selective education anyway courtesy of the state.

I don't understand why you would consider taking a bursary place designated for fiscal need when you are financially stable. Most people save/ downsize/ move etc for private education... quite rightly. Bursaries are there for those who would potentially benefit( and benefit the school) but who can't afford to pay. You would be depriving another child. You have the option of paying, presumably an 11+place and other local authority choices . Apart from all the above the school will go through your finances when you apply.

100k? Bursaries?

My DC had bursaries/scholarships...our joint income was 13k!....Scholarships are usually dependent on talent, bursaries are on financial need...

I can't think of any private schools that would offer a bursary to someone on £100k income plus 2 x properties - and in my opinion they shouldn't, it's better used assisting someone in genuine need.
At DDs school there is an entrance test and interviews for admissions. The highest achiever (occasionally achievers) get an academic scholarship of 20-25% which isn't means tested. There are smaller scholarships for art, drama, sport and music of about 5-10%. Assuming you get a scholarship they can be combined with a bursary if eligible. So basically 5 or 6 pupils get additional funding which could be up to 100% of fees.
You can only apply for these scholarships/bursaries for entry at 11+ or 6th form. There is also a hardship fund for those who fall on hard times whilst already at the school.
...so in essence you will probably have to pay 100% of the fees unless your child is in the top few % of applicants.
Seems fair to me.

I am not thinking of taking bursaries. We're on moderate income but we need to support our parents who is totally dependant on us. Two properties are also on high mortgage.
Because we can't afford full fee we decided to send DC to grammar. What I'm saying is there are plenty of people who are self employed and actually deprive other talented children who are more in need. And they often misuse bursary for scholarship and say they are entitled because their kids are too smart.

Anecdotally, when ds attended one top independent school interview I got chatting to another mum. She said they were also bursary candidates despite having a large house in Battersea worth 'squillions'! She was starting up a business so had a low income so couldn't re-mortgage but it seemed so unfair. I don't know how the schools assess those sorts of cases.

You can afford it. You just haven't prioritied it

If others cheat, that is morally wrong and illegal. They are liars and thieves.

I'm not complaining that I can't send my DC to private. I totally agree bursaries are not for us who is about middle class. When kids are talented and need sopport financially it is realky generous of the schools to aid them.However, I think schools should assess people more closely. There are pople who cheat on their income and got 100% busaries with free uniform, trip and meals and then boast it is all for their children's ability. I hear lots of those stories and just wanted to gossip maybe.

If you take a look at this Where do you fit in - Institute For Fiscal Studies - IFS
www.ifs.org.uk › wheredoyou_... You'll be able to see how your income compares to the rest of the UK. £100k put you somewhere near the top 5% of the UK population. Assuming the other families you mentioned are earning similar wages, the schools absolutely need to be more strict on giving out bursaries.

I find these stories quite hard to believe. I work in an independent secondary school in London. All bursaries are now means tested and the pupils who get them at our school all come from quite deprived backgrounds. Schools make thorough checks and would certainly ask about properties.

Income requirements for bursaries do vary. Where we are, household income has to be below £80k to be considered.....and bursaries are on a sliding scale so if you have over £70k I'd guess you'd only get a small amount if help, but I think they say that an income if below £25k could qualify for full help.

Believe it or not, there are some schools who will consider bursaries on incomes up to £120k - I think SPGS is one of them. This is unusual though and again, the bursary offered at that level would presumably be low.

In my experience, bursaries, especially at the higher levels are fairly rigorously tested - there's a lot of paperwork and evidence to provide and so whilst some people might cheat the system, the system is designed to genuinely offer to those with more limited means. Bursary policies normally say that certain things are not appropriate for those receiving bursaries and then list things such as owning a second home, regular new cars, significant home improvements etc. The point is that bursaries are not there to fund the fees of those whose lifestyle choices mean they can't afford fees. Those receiving bursaries are expected to have made sacrifices or that there aren't further sacrifices for them to make - so it is expected that unless there are small children or some other pressing need, parents will work full time and they will liquidate any excessive equity in property and not be engaging in large soending. Most fee paying parents make sacrifices for their children to attend, so bursaries are not there to mean the recipients can continue their expensive lifestyles which leave them with little cash.

The reality is that in most places bursary finds are limited. Bursaries are often offered to those in need who are ALSO very high performers. There will always be children who apply who are bright who might be offered a bursary which is too small to allow them to actually attend. Schools seem to vary in their honesty about what is likely or achievable at different income levels which often causes frustration when hopes are raised and then disappointed. I guess that every year is slightly different in terms of who applies so it is hard to be precise about how much will be offered, but often the amounts seem radically below what people hoped for or felt led to believe they would be offered. Perhaps schools hope that once people have invested the time and effort in going through the draining application and bursary process they will scrape together the extra required, or they simply make their offers knowing some won't be able to afford the fees wih the bursary offer made and that because their funds are limited and/or because they have other fantastic candidates who might be even better, they are willing to let some children go as part of the process. I agree that it's hard if you work hard, receive an offer and are a top performer and then knowing the income and what a family need to send their child, the offer is significantly too low. Really hard if the alternative is a very poor state school......so good to hear in Mrs Patmore's case (and I like to think of Mrs Patmore's from Downton having a child who received a bursary or scholarship to a top public school) that the alternative was a SS Grammar - still so highly sought after and brilliant, even if not quite the unique experience of Westminster. I'm sure he will have gained things by being in the state sector he would never have accessed at Westminster too.

We have almost 100% bursary from the government, we are a low income family and self employed.
We have to give all financial information including accounts, so unless their accountant is fiddling the books, they won't get away with much.

I suppose they all vary though, we are only asked for income details, mortgage, holidays, cars, who works, who doesn't etc has no bearing on the amount offered.

ChocolateWombat, that's all true. Some people who receives full bursaries set their properties and new bmw cars under their business account. I believe there must be inocent families with bright children much more, however, there are some people who plan and achieve it. I know one who sent all the income abroad and didn't buy a house although they could fully afford it just to be entitled full bursery. They found out in that way they can save even more money that buying a house and sending DC to state or paying for indi. It's hard to believe but happening in top private schools in London and that's what disgust me.

I have read with a great interest the main post and comments.
We are also in situation when required the financial support but not sure if we fit for this. Our gross profit is around 50k; have a mortgage, DH works full time. I am self-employed and do tutoring myself. Every pence invested into the books and swimming( boy has back and legs problem ). I am tightened to DS and can work only part time while he is at school.
We hope that a bursary help us at the beginning stage ( or maybe we get a good scholarship). Of course, we are ready to help the school as much as our family can and pay some money. But we never thought to lie and hide profit. This is unfair in relation to the children from the poor families☹️

I honestly don’t believe that many families are fiddling their finances to get bursaries. Even if they send money abroad, it will still be earned income and you have to prove your income when you apply for a bursary. Whilst a small minority of people might get away with making their income appear different than it really is I don’t think this is done very often. It really is he same as families who hide their income to claim benefits, a small percentage of people do it but most benefit claimants are very honest and the reality is that more benefits are unclaimed than what is claimed fraudulently.

And income limits for bursaries varies wildly. In the north west where fees are around £12kpa the schools generally offer full bursaries to those with household income below 30k and zero bursary to ones with household income over £45-50k. Whilst in London and areas where school fees are higher and living costs lower the income limits for bursary qualification are much higher.
I’m really fed up of people assuming that ‘ownership’ of certain things means you must be hiding income though.
We get a full bursary and we have a brand new £25k car sitting on the drive of our larger than average house.
The car is leased through the motability scheme using Pip mobility allowance due to having a severely disabled person in the house and we can’t live in a smaller house due to the disabled persons needs for additional space. Our mortgage is more than we afford but we can’t move anywhere cheaper so we constantly live in poverty. Our household income is below £30k. People’s perceptions of wealth isn’t always the reality.

🤔

totally

This is so true. Not that we have a reason to, as we pay little in fees, but Yes, our accountant could move things around, but our income would be the same. We have to prove this with wage slips, P60, business accounts, and it has to tie in with HMRC when the Bursar checks.
Even if you are only taking a min wage from your business as some might do, they look at any dividend you make take from the business.

Most scholarship offers are for 20% or less. It is possible to combine a scholarship with a bursary but on £100000 I wouldn't think there was any chance of receiving means tested funding. I would stick to a grammar school of you would struggle with fees.

If you rocked up to our school driving a BMW the bursar would have been down on you like a ton of bricks. The paperwork was horrendous. They had access to our bank accounts and knew every item listed on our contents insurance. Every time I discharged half a hockey team from my 30 year old corolla in the front drive, the bursar would give me a wave and go inside, presumably to tick the box "they are still poor".