Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

Are not many children you would class as middle class !

The grammar apologists have good PR.

There are very, very few 'disadvantaged' pupils in Trafford Grammar schools.

The issues with education in white, working class areas are more deeply embedded than schools. A change in education system won't change the culture of low expectations. This is systemic problem that we totally fail to address in a wholistic way because no one cares enough.

The pupils involved, the families involved are estranged from the education system introducing grammars won't help. The help needed would take investment and would take a long time - not long enough for a government to see results.

This whole thread is about 'bright' children and middle class hypocrisy. No one cares about the average child or the child from a family with low aspirations. Grammars will not help them and neither will anyone else.

Middle Class Exam 3rd year Undergraduate Exam 23rd July 2018.

1. Define what middle class is (35) Marks You should take no more than 1 hour on this question .

1. Is the term 'middle class' related to the surrounding socio economic situation .

You should use examples as to why middle class in a northern town does /not equal being middle class in a prosperous commuter belt Surrey town. (65) marks you should aim to spend two hours on this question.

I am not talking about Trafford Grammar schools when I mention disadvantage ! I am talking about genuine disadvantage in places like Ince, Derkar, Hatterslay, .

Bert

So wc and under privileged children from degenerated areas who happen to be bright shouldn't have the chance of a good education in a grammar school?

I'm sorry mousse I see where you are coming from because I've witnessed 20 years in this area and totally agree with your last post in the description of families with low aspirations, but grammars can change this.
My dd friend and others like her would be encouraged by society if not her parents, to try for the grammar. There would be an emerging culture of race to the top, not the bottom.
I don't think many parents could even tell you where the nearest grammar is to us, if there was one here, they would know.

“So wc and under privileged children from degenerated areas who happen to be bright shouldn't have the chance of a good education in a grammar school?”

If you can think of a way of making sure they get places then hey, you might have a point. But they don’t.

letstalk

this is the school my dd would have been allocated.
I must say though, that we would have considered it previously as the sn provision was excellent, I'm not sure now as 4 years can make a huge difference to a school. www.rosebridgeacademy.co.uk/
You must be a mind reader, it's in Ince, no barbed wire but huge metal fence

You do if the grammar school draws from areas that has no 'Middle Class' pupils. Though I guess by designation they become middle class in relation to the area for being aspirational...

And you genuinely think that grammar schools are good for clever children from disadvantaged backgrounds?
Most definitely. Otherwise I wouldn't be sending my DS to one.

You know when a school has terrible results 1st they quote A-G grades when we are now from the 23rd only using numbers ! Secondly they give numbers what does 0.98 mean !

GCSE LEVEL 5 1%

GCSE LEVEL 4 21%

Bertrand a true comprehensive school that admits everybody with no questions or requirements . 'Brilliant' isn't that they make no judgement on 11 year olds …..

Secondly they give numbers that nobody understands what does 0.98 mean .

bert

Why wouldn't they gain a place, if they passed the test? The public transport and roads aren't set up for swathes of kids coming into the area.
They tend to get to 14/15 become parents and move onto estates, anyone with any savvy moves away, those that can't take local jobs.
With the odd exception, people don't usually commute, if they do work here e.g public sector directors / mc occupations, they don't live here
Nobody wants to live here, grammar school or not.

99% of children leave the school unable to access A levels or Grade 3 qualifications . Gilly you know of course a Grammar school would reduce the 1% down to 0% and the 21% down to just 8% . These grammar schools are a force for 'Evil'.

The children at Rose Bridge would be told they are 'failures' and instead of going to a Comprehensive , would now attend 'HORROR' a Modern school....

The poor head girl and head boy making statements saying Rose Bridge will enable them to attain good GCSE grades .

No attending Rose Bridge will mean you will have to retake your GCSEs at an F.E College .

sorry letstalk

I'm a bit dim sometimes regardless of my PgCE
in education for dummies terms, what do you mean?

Is it that the children from this area who are bright enough would benefit hugely from a grammar school or that they can't be helped.

I must admit that the school stats are misleading iirc there is a large proportion with sn who attend the school, historically excellent provision, but looking at the vacancies they need a SENCO so maybe something went wrong.

No they need a hugely structured focused academic 'no excuses' approach. Many of them now attaining level 3/4 D E grades, in the right academic environment could attain 7, 8 and 9s in the new marking scheme. I can imagine if a child from 'Ince' gets to University its a celebration .

If a child gets into Oxbridge from 'Ince' I imagine a civil reception is the order of the day !

This is totally unacceptable for the children of Ince and elsewhere similar. We don't expect them to get a full chance to succeed , just a quarter of a chance will be a start !

letstalk

A local lass from Rose Bridge before it's Academy days, when believe it or not it was outstanding was signed by Pete Waterman and went on to record for Disney.
Another one in the last couple of years went to uni to study Politics, and as he was from the bottom 10% school achievements, got to do work experience with David Cameron.
Then the idiot started spouting about being a conservative, I knew then he wasn't the sharpest , but good luck to him, he's at UCLAN now.

So.. jump ship. Please really think about the fact that you are SEGREGATING CHILDREN. I imagine all/most here will hate apartheid and most /many will hate Brexit. It's hard to see that this is how it happens. Almost nobody wants to put politics/ social good over what they think is for the good of their children.

What I mean by that is that that is exactly what those who wanted apartheid / Brexit felt. The were putting their children first. Before politics etc.

That is a shocking OFSTED- particularly the bit about the leadership of the school.

But - nearly 60% PP kids? Blimey.

I don’t yet have kids so perhaps my opinion will change but I’m really uncomfortable with private schools and grammars. I think it gives children born into wealth an unfair advantage in life. Some employers look for candidates with private school education and weed out those who attended State schools which seems wholly unfair to me, shouldn’t we be fighting for a meritocracy?

With that said, I do understand that there are areas where State schools are pretty horrendous which forces a parent to consider privately funded schooling but it’s not solving the wider problem and that is that educational standards need to be improved throughout the UK and those schools scoring ‘satisfactory’ or less need to be nurtured and given the funding it so desperately needs.

Re-reading my post and I know I sound idealistic but doesn’t every child deserve a decent level of education and shouldn’t be discriminated on the basis that it’s parents could not afford to privately school him/her?

79% of last years year 11 cohort did not attain Level 4 or' C' in English and Maths !

Therefore 79% will have to redo their English and Maths GCSE. Only 1% which likely to be 1 child attained at level 5 meaning the possibility of studying at level 3 is available.

Gilly I am aware of the difficulties that SEN brings having a son with Autism . However, I am also aware how with the right support like my son has received 'miracles' can occur ! The school should be doing better than 21% at level 4 English/Maths . 1% at level 5 is barely believable !

Bertrand. Even you must admit it would be a bit hard for a grammar school to 'ruin' a school that attains 1% at level 5 English/Maths!

You quote a 60% Pupil Premium cohort, the 'posh' comps there have 40-50% Pupil Premium cohorts . Its stretching it to suggest kids from leafy suburbs would be making a beeline to attend a grammar school in 'ince'.

The other thing to understand passing the 11+ for a grammar school in such a location , will not be like passing for Tonbridge/ Tunbridge Wells grammar schools.