My 9 year old told his 4 year old sister about his Sex Relations lesson today

[bkplace601]

My son attends a primary school in Norfolk. Class sizes are small so he is in Year 4 with Year 5 pupils who are taught together.

A letter was sent home at the end of last term saying SRE was about to start and we had to let the school know if we wanted to pull our child out. I didn't get the letter, but there wasn't any detail in it that would give me a reason to think he should be pulled out.

After his first lesson my 9 year old came home and said to his 4 year old sister, "Do you know what, when you get older boys are going to stick their penis into your private bits". I distracted my daughter and then chatted to my son. He said he had been told not to talk about it with KS1 children, but he said his sister was not KS1!

I contacted the school immediately to pull him out of SRE lessons until we could find out how the school were teaching the subject. I also advised them that as a response to our situation, they should maybe reiterate that it wasn't just KS1 pupils but all pupils. The teacher came back with a very defensive response, that they had made it clear. Clearly, to the detriment of my family, they hadn't and were now putting other families at risk, why wouldn't a teacher want to just reiterate that pupils shouldn't speak to any younger children in the next lesson?

I have withdrawn my son saying I would like to look at how and what he is being taught. I have looked at the legislation on guidance for SRE, which would be great if my school were using them:

SRE Education Guide 2000
Key Points
All schools must have an up to date policy, drawn up by the governing body, and available to parents for inspection. I had seek it out on the school website, it wasn't in the policies section, but under curriculum. And it doesn't tell me the first lesson is on sex! What it does tell me is that they are vaguely providing a policy to cover the government requirements with a few bits missing and in less than 15 lines.

This should be developed in consultation with parents and the wider community. What a dream. How can I encourage this school to change to this way of thinking, rather than don't drop your child off late, make sure they come for 97% of the year, pick them up at 3 and its not our fault if your child doesn't come home with their letters. Does consultation really amount to a letter home that allows you to withdraw your child from a lesson? And does silence, a no reply, really amount to fair acceptance by parents?

Primary schools should have clear parameters on what children should be taught in the transition year before moving to secondary school and that parents should be consulted. My son is Year 4, what do they get taught in the transition year that is different from what he is learning now which parents should be consulted on?

I have withdrawn my son from SRE, but I am just at a loss as to what to do next. The school don't seem to care that my 4 year old daughter has been exposed to KS2 "sex" lessons, and I don't think my 9 year old son is really mature enough to be dropped into the deep end with his first lesson in SRE being centred around sex! However, I don't want him to miss out on lessons of physical, emotional and moral development. I thought teaching about relationships was more important than sex these days, that sex was just a part of learning about relationships. But what can a parent do, when the school isn't even operating to the government guidelines or statutory policy requirements?

How on earth have you manged not to discuss any facet of reproduction at all with your younger child? Hasn't she seen any babies or tiny birds, or animals in the spring? Good grief! Do the right thing. Discuss mammalian reproduction in an age appropriate fashion with your child. 9 is FAR TOO LATE to be finding out about it for the first time.

It is rational it is reasonable and it encourages parents and teachers to work together to deliver the subject. This isn't happening at my sons school and it would be fantastic if it was.

That doesn't mean the teachers write to new parents every year and ask them to help re-plan their lessons. It means that when they let parents know when the lessons are occuring (they did) and perhaps consult on major changes.

now putting other families at risk
At risk of an older sibling mentioning sex? Oh the horror.

to the detriment of my family
What detriment? Your daughter didn't notice, so all you had to do was have a chat with your son.

with his first lesson in SRE being centred around sex
I wonder what the S could stand for in SRE?

I contacted the school immediately to pull him out of SRE lessons
Well that seems an entirely normal and proportionate response. I'm sure you are an excellent parent and not at all batshit crazy.

what do they get taught in the transition year that is different from what he is learning now which parents should be consulted on?
That's when the schools start encouraging them all to take up prostitution :-)

How on earth have you manged not to discuss any facet of reproduction at all with your younger child?

I'm picturing the OP screaming "DIRTY CHILD" to any question asked by little toddler DS, until he learned which subjects are forbidden.

Is this you OP?

Haven't read the thread yet, but my initial thought is to ask why yuppie haven't anyway been teaching him about it as his parent? Mine already knew what they were told at school and I'd been able to approach it in an age appropriate way and tailored to my dc. That way there were also no surprises when it came to school.

you, not yuppie, and already, not anyway!! Weird autocorrect choices!

My two stepsons have a similar age gap. When the eldest had had sex education, he'd obviously been talking to the youngest about it. When their dad was putting the youngest to bed, youngest asked him "have you had sex in this bed?"
When dad picked his jaw up off the floor, he said yes. Then youngest asked "how many times?"
l think it's like when they learn anything new, particularly what at that age they think is 'rude' stuff - they're just desperate to tell somebody else about it.

Did your son not have any idea about sex before these lessons ? It does sound as though it was him showing off as I am sure, unless he has any additional needs, that at 9 he would completely understand that not telling ks1 children meant not telling younger children.

I think you are doing the wrong thing taking him out of the rest of the lessons and blaming the school. The children will be given age appropriate information by teachers but he will end up hearing it from friends in the playground, probably inaccurately.

I don't think you can leave SRE solely up to the school. I think it's a parents responsibility to discuss with their children as well. By the time my children were given this info by the school, they were already aware. After the lessons, I just ask if there's anything they didn't understand and let them know that they can ask me any questions. They were both really sensible about it.

Agree with sleepymouse here. Plus the more strongly you react the more your kids may not want to talk to you about it?

You totally over reacted here.

Has it occurred to you that another child could tell him what was covered in the lesson anyway? I remember picking up ds1 on the day that they did SRE and all the kids were sniggering about wet dreams and wanking.

I think that the average 9 year old knows about the mechanics of sex before it's covered at school. Does he know some of the other topic areas like periods and the changes that he can expect as he gets older?

It sounds like you need to fill in some gaps in his knowledge. For example, sometimes women date women and men date men so his statement to his sister is inaccurate. He's also not listened to the point that sex is consensual and no grown man is going to randomly stick his dick into her.

Aren't there any Reception or nursery kids at the school? I'd expect the teachers to include Foundation in the list of who not to discuss sex with.

Whilst I agree with many that there is no reason a 9 or 4 shouldn’t talk about sex, I’d be surprised if the first lesson in year 4 involved the mechanics of sex. There are far more pertinent subjects around puberty, body autonomy and self worth or positive and negative relationships of all types that need covering. Unless your school is enormously forward thinking and had fine this in year 3 (in which case I’d expect first lesson year 4 to have done recap and consolidation).

So I very much doubt the school are actually to blame for this and it’s more that beginning SRE has sparked a few playground conversations between the boys. This needs to be clarified as you’ve pulled him out on the basis that the lesson was about sex.

Your points about the guidance:
The school have a policy on their website, they have met this requirement (this one is an actual requirement not just guidance)

How do you know the curriculum wasnt created in partnership with parents? My school did questionnaires and more than 1 parent meeting when I overhauled our sex Ed curriculum but that was about 5 years ago now. Year on year changes are made by professional and experienced staff, we don’t consult every year.

If they sent a letter out about withdrawal then again they have met this requirement. The SRE letters usually (unfortunately, I wish people didn’t think it was a big deal but they do) cause a bit of a buzz so I’m surprised no one mentioned it to you.

I don’t understand the point about ‘transition before secondary’ - good SRE should be taught the whole way through school.

When I was 4 until a good 8, I was led to believe that a baby came from a packet mix from woolworths!

I didn't even know what sex was until I was 11!

Good lord, I am not telling my 4 year old (when he turns 4) what sex is!!

Good lord, I am not telling my 4 year old (when he turns 4) what sex is!!

Then you're relying on other children misleading your ignorant child as soon as they find out some inaccurate snippet to "educate" him. Good luck with that. Because they have all picked up some startlingly unreliable factoids about reproduction by the time the school gets round to SRE.

MrBeanTeddy

Conversations about body changes have to start earlier now as kids are hitting puberty as early as 8. Talking about periods leads to a conversation about why girls have them so most children know about sex before 11. Also children are told about the pants rule very young to keep them safe and most kids start asking questions around this as they get older.

MrBeanTeddy but why? What is it about scientific facts that 4 year olds should know?
Do we tell children their food is digested by food fairies? Or that plants grow in the ground because of magic? So why is this specific fact avoided and talked about in euphemisms?

Children aren’t stupid. Adults don’t talk about sex because it’s bad and dirty - that message is very cleared passed on through lies like ‘a stork brought the baby’

What an overreaction! Which has probably undone the good work done in the SRE lesson because both children now think that sex is shameful.

DS told me when in Reception that he had been told babies were born when the daddy passed the mummy the seed for a baby when they kissed at their wedding, MrBeanTeddy. What would you do? Agree? Tell him the truth? Tell him, no, the stork brought him?

I have a similar age gap between my DCs (they are a bit younger than yours) and I can understand you are upset but I really think it is one of those things that he should know not to discuss.

I think at this stage I would explain to DS that DD is far too young to hear about his lessons and that he must only talk about what he learns with his class or an adult, you can explain in a simple way to your DD what he meant, I'm sure with a brief age appropriate explanation it will just go over her head.

I think you are overreacting with the school a bit, they have told the class not to discuss with younger pupils and I'm sure they'd assume that by 9 they would also understand that goes for anyone younger than that also.

This is a parenting issue not a school one I'd say. Use this situation to have a chat with ds about how he will learn things that are age appropriate for him but not his sister and then talk to dd if she is upset and confused in language she will understand.

When my 7 year old asked where babies come from I told him.

I then overheard him explaining very clearly to my 4 year old!

No problem though really, is it?

The problem with withdrawing him is that other children are going to talk about it in the playground. No matter how many times their teacher told them not to. So your DS will get second hand information that will definitely have some inaccuracies in it. Much better to stay on the actual lessons.

A 9 year old would understand what is meant by not discussing with KS1 children, and it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have picked up that this was a topic for older children anyway. He is either struggling generally with social queues, and will need a lot more guidance on what is and is not appropriate (does he often say inappropriate things for the person he's speaking to? Does he have problems interacting with his peers at playtime?).
Or he understands fine that he was not supposed to talk to her like that, and is being naughty.
Your response would be reasonable if he was 4-5, but he is plenty old enough to be responsible for the way he spoke (and I'm not surprised the teacher responded that they were told not to, the fact that he was deliberately disobedient is his fault, not hers!).

Oh well, mine were about 4 when they found put what sex was but they found put from me, so it wasnt a problem. But then I don't consider it a subject that's either "dirty" or "embarrassing"

I do wonder whether the 9 year old was just taking the instruction not to tell the KS1 pupils exactly at face value (wilfully or otherwise) and perhaps the message should have continued along the lines of, 'and ask the grown-ups before you tell younger siblings'. But if it didn't, then I would see specifically that as being the failing of the school, not any of the rest of it.
As soon as I realised that there had been a letter on the subject that I had obviously not received, I would have asked the teacher for a copy. Or decided that it didn't matter, the child wasn't going to be withdrawn. (Even as atheists, we didn't exercise our right to withdraw them from the 'broadly Christian in nature' assemblies - suffering the occasional bout of tedium is good for the soul). But by the time our eldest was 9, discussions on 'that subject' had been going on in our household for quite a while and in the presence of his then 5 and 3 year old siblings. Even if the response to the odd question from them might have been, we'll explain that bit later'...