Maths GCSE in Primary

[winterisstillcoming]

Hey everybody, I was wondering if you could help clear something up for me.

I was speaking to my SIL yesterday who told me her Y5 son is revising for his maths GCSE. He is at independent school. I said be careful only the first attempt counts. As a trustee of an Academy trust that has recently decided not to put students forward early for this reason, I thought I knew what I was talking about. Apparently not according to my SIL.

So was she correct, and is it an independent school thing that students are allowed to resit? Which puts my Trust's students at a disadvantage??

She was so bloody patronising too. And she got my nephews GCSE text books out at a family wedding.

There are some who will benefit from acceleration.
Most don't need that. They can be challenged in other ways.
Some parents are the extension of 'my child is in top set so is infinitely more awesome than your child. Let me whip out my y7 child's gcse revision guide whilst out for coffee so everyone can see'.

the computer-assisted proof was considered so complex that it was infeasible for a human to check by hand

Exactly. We had, of course, some teaching in 'standard' topology (are particular patterns topologically equivalent, minimum numbers of colours etc), but the idea of an 'unsolved' problem in something which seemed so 'right and wrong' as Maths was amazingly exciting.

It was the same feeling as an undergraduate when I first asked a question related to biochemistry and got the answer 'nobody knows yet' - a realisation of infinite possibility rather than tick box learning.

There ARE resources out there for 'non linear Maths learning'. It would be entirely possible to create more.

Gfrnn - I wasn't measuring success by academics achievement. By definition, anyone with a degree by the age of 16 in academically very successful. I'm talking about the rest of their lives. Happy, worthwhile employment, family, etc.

What is it with mathmo parents?

Some parents are the extension of 'my child is in top set so is infinitely more awesome than your child. Let me whip out my y7 child's gcse revision guide whilst out for coffee so everyone can see'.

This is now descending into insult by imaginary anecdote.

At the extreme end, Ruth Lawrence seems to have turned out just fine eventually despite her nightmare father. She’s female of course.

At a more normal level I did half my O levels at 14, and it was fine, but that was back in the dark ages when the highest mark you could get was an A and university bars didn’t check your age.

Baldly put, maybe. But surely everyone needs to examine their motives? One of my children is extremely talented at something- and I know I have occasionally behaved like a bit of a git about it.

@NobleGiraffe

If you were actually interested in finding the truth you might read a bit further rather than cherry-picking single sentences to support your pre-conceived prejudices. Here is another publication from the same author 2 years later which summarises the overall conclusions of the Netherlands study as follows:

Results. The results showed minimal differences in the social-emotional characteristics of accelerated and non-accelerated gifted students. The few differences we found favoured the accelerated students. We also found that multiple grade skipping does not
have negative effects on social-emotional characteristics, and that long-term effects of acceleration tend to be positive. As regards the possible modulation of personal and environmental factors, we merely found an impact of such factors in the non-accelerated
group.
Conclusions. The results of this study strongly suggest that social-emotional characteristics of accelerated gifted students and non-accelerated gifted students are largely similar. These results thus do not support worries expressed by teachers about the acceleration of gifted students. Our findings parallel the outcomes of earlier studies
in the United States and Germany in that we observed that acceleration does not harm gifted students, not even in the case of multiple grade skipping. On the contrary, there is a suggestion in the data that accelerated students are more socially competent
than non-accelerated students. The findings in this study can reassure those parents and teachers who worry about the social-emotional consequences of acceleration in school:
If a student is gifted, acceleration seems to be a sound and, in many cases, appropriate measure in gifted education."

@titchy
"I wasn't measuring success by academics achievement. By definition, anyone with a degree by the age of 16 in academically very successful. I'm talking about the rest of their lives. Happy, worthwhile employment, family, etc."

Sure - move the goal posts, but this was already covered in the study I linked above:

"accelerated students tend to outperform students who are not accelerated in their performance on standardized achievement tests, college grades, degrees obtained, status of universities or colleges attended, and career status. Accelerants equal or surpass non-accelerants in self-concept, self-esteem, self-confidence, social relationships, participation in extracurricular activities, and life satisfaction".

Another study finds the same thing:
The considerable majority of young people who have been radically accelerated, or who accelerated by 2 years, report high degrees of life satisfaction, have taken research degrees at leading universities, have professional careers, and report facilitative social and love relationships. Young people of equal abilities who accelerated by only 1 year or who have not been permitted acceleration have tended to enter less academically rigorous college courses, report lower levels of life satisfaction, and in many cases, experience significant difficulties with socialization. Several did not graduate from college or high school

Actually, to be fair, MaisyPops, this is what the OP said happened. I do think this was an odd thing to do. Sorry, I thought you were referring to what I was doing with my dd. Let me assure you I talk about it on mumsnet because I want to let people know it is a route I took and am happy with it as a balance of those who say not to. Getting books out in a social event; no!

gfrnn it was the main thrust of an abstract you posted
If you wanted the more positive study noted, why didn’t you post that one instead of throwing negative links into the mix then moaning when they are picked up on?

@JustRichmal "Unfortunately, with the computer age, we are now in a global economy, so those countries who adapt teaching to meet the speed the child can learn, rather than adapt the speed the child learns to fit in with the teaching, will be ahead.
Luckily, computers could also be the solution. Dd would have been happy to learn maths from a well designed computer programme while the others got on with their maths.
However, the attitude of, "This is what we have always done, why should we change in Britain," will find us sleeping."

I agree. The UK's results in international studies like PISA and TIMSS are at best mediocre and its progress over the last decade was described by the OECD as "flat in a changing world". PISA compares the performance of high attainers by looking at the standard reached by the 90th percentile. The 90th percentile learners in top performing countries were 2 years ahead of the 90th percentile learners in the UK, suggesting they're at A* GCSE standard by the equivalent of year 9. This is fairly compelling evidence that the most able students in the UK are not adequately stretched.
Computer instruction is definitely an effective option which has been used by innovators in gifted education like CTY and EPGY for 30 years.

This is now descending into insult by imaginary anecdote.

To be fair OP did mention "and she got my nephews GCSE text books out at a family wedding."

I just don't understand what you who oppose early exams expect junior school kids to do once they've reached the ability to take their GCSE?

I just don't understand what you who oppose early exams expect junior school kids to do once they've reached the ability to take their GCSE?

Err more maths, different maths, fun maths, broader topics of maths. Having or not having the GCSE should make no difference whatsoever to the child.

'Sorry Johnny you can't do this really exciting maths because you need to practice drawing graphs for next weeks' GCSE that we've decided will be good for you us'

There's no point in not taking the exam if they can do it though and it's just as interesting as any other maths

They don’t just accidentally get to the level of A* GCSE in primary, they need to be taught stuff like trigonometry, circle theorems, histograms. Instead of being taught histograms they could be doing other stuff so that they are doing exciting and challenging maths but not from the GCSE syllabus.

“I just don't understand what you who oppose early exams expect junior school kids to do once they've reached the ability to take their GCSE?”

Exactly the same as my “gifted” in English child. More reading, different types of writing, more finding out, more talking to people about books, more entering competitions, more going to see plays, more writing plays and putting them on.......Surely there is a maths equivalent?

I’ve said this before but it’s like a Y6 child saying they’re bored in English so the parent saying ‘I’ve looked at the secondary syllabus and they study Romeo and Juliet in Y7, so you’re going to read it now’ Then complaining that they’re also bored in Y7. Other books are available!

I used to love doing proof by induction. You know, prove by induction that the sum of numbers 1...n is n(n+1)/2
It doesn't appear on the GCSE syllabus anywhere (unless it has now come in?). Is it even on the maths syllabus?

And converting numbers to and from binary (or any other base). Again, not in GCSE.

Venn diagrams have only just come back, again these are fun. But there is the rest of set theory.

There is loads of fun maths around.

on the A level maths syllabus

There are maths equivalents but unfortunately there isn't much out there.

I'm lucky that I have a love for maths and so do a lot of things with my son that have nothing to do with the national curriculum. However I spend most of the time concentrating on developing his English, emotional intelligence and sports as those parts of his brain won't get a look in as he is obsessed with maths.

RubiaPTA If a DC sits their GCSE maths in primary school, what do you think they should do next?

Further maths, and/or statistics GCSE. Also look in to their readiness for other stem GCSEs. Then past that A level maths, then further maths. Then past that degree level. The normal path just all at the childs rate

Who will be teaching the child this, and when?

So basically, keep to the train tracks just getting to the station faster than their peers. How profoundly depressing.