Alleyns - diversity

[happybunny3]

Hello. My DD has just sat the 7 plus (awaiting results) and since then I’ve heard lots of stories about a lack of diversity at the school. Don’t know whether to raise this with the school - it’s clearly going to annoy them whilst they are busy trying to make their selections - but I don’t want my DD to be put at a disadvantage, particularly as I didn’t tutor her or engage in long-term preparation like most seem to have done. I naively thought we would see if she could get through on her own merit. She sat another assessment where she just missed getting through to 2nd round (60 applicants for 15 places and they invite back less than half) and now I realise that it’s highly unlikely we will get Alleyns (135 applicants for 24 places!) Feel torn as to whether to contact the school to discuss my concerns or just resign myself to the fact that there will be way too much competition and that schools don’t mind tutored kids as it makes their job easier. Thoughts anyone? What would you do in my situation?

Lentils I'm not sure how you can refute the ethnic composition of my daughter's year group?! There are some mixed race kids for sure but there are also a decent number of kids with Asian / Black parents.

I have no direct experience of JAGs, but the mix seems fairly similar to DC to me?

I was just offering a viewpoint that I don't see the blond haired/ blue eyed school that Alleyns is rumoured to be. If the OP has concerns in this regard then she would be wise to raise them when revisiting the school?

Fleurdelacourt - I'm disagreeing about diversity at Alleyn's sr on a WHOLE, not just one class. Maybe it's my dd's year and they are attracting more minorities nowadays.

Sorry my initial post wasn’t clearer. I’m confused and it’s clearly coming across but I think Lentils summarized it well. The tutoring and ethnic diversity were separate issues but I guess also related - if I had prepared her earlier then would have had more chance of getting noticed. Have to work twice as hard if there is a diversity problem. I don’t really know what I would want the school to do if I did raise it - I guess I was just sharing some initial thoughts. Only one day left now anyway to find out their decision.

Alleyns is a fantastic school. Wonderful facilities, stellar academics and first class co-curricular.

There can however, be very little debate about its monoculturalitt surely? Compare it to JAGS, DC, W, T, CLSG, CLSB and you'll see.

I raised this with Gary Savage a few years back at an evening of DS1's prep and he was VERY defensive about it. It isn't something that either he nor the school sees as an issue and hence the reason we didn't apply.

At the end of the day, we all have criteria for where our DC's fit in and it will differ.

Live and let live...

*monoculturality

Firefox, the schools you list are all single sex. There would be more cause for concern if there were stark differences between Alleyns and comparable co-eds.

I suspect you would see more "visible ethnics" at G&L compared with LU as well. You will still get a big mix at LU, just a different one. Stereotypes perhaps, but Europeans often feel more at ease with co-ed education. This is what they are used to. Some Asian groups, say, feel less comfortable, which is why you often find Muslim girls in single sex Catholic schools.

I dont know what you propose schools should do about this. I think it is right that the private sector has a co-ed offer. And if this means that there are fewer kids of certain ethnic groups at these schools, and no evidence of discrimination, then so be it.

FWIW we have know two kids on full (really full as in daily bus fares being paid) bursaries at Alleyns. Both were from ethnic minorities, one Afro-Caribbean, the other South Asian.

Dd’s at Alleyn’s and of her close friendship group of 8 girls there are only two whose parents are both white - the other six are all mixed race (from different ethnic groups). I’d always thought that it was very monocultural before dd went there but it may be that her year group is atypical. Obviously many families are very well off but again her friendship group includes children on full bursaries and children who live in multi-million pound houses (not dd!). There are a lot of children from state primaries - in her year the largest feeder apart from the junior school was Honeywell. The senior school is however much more diverse than the junior school

My ]problem with A's lack of diversity isn't just about minorities getting opportunities. Diversity is not just a benefit to minorities. (And wouldn't it be a great world if we didn't always equate bursary help with ethnic minorities?) Schools like A should be concerned about diversity not because they should be ticking boxes, but because they truly believe that different perspectives of other cultures, worlds, experiences and class add value to a child's education.

To clarify that diversity adds to all children's education, not just the minority dc's offered places.

Lentils. Who always equates getting bursary help with ethnic minorities? And what evidence do you have that Alleyns is not diverse. So far you have only compared Alleyns diversity with single sex schools. Which ignores the fact that one attraction of private educations for a proportion of EM families is the ability to select single sex education.

Diversity in London private schools is often far greater than many other parts of the UK. It is not unknown for white British to be in a minority. (DS once played a school cricket team which included 9 Patels. Confusing apparently.) Alleyns may be less diverse than some others, but honestly what is the problem. As long as all pupils are valued equally, and I have never heard anything to suggest this is not the case. Are you suggesting that selection policies should instead be biased in favour of ethnic minorities, or to the detriment of able white British children. Or perhaps, decide to educate boys and girls separately to ensure greater numbers of EM applicants.

needmoresleep I've heard the "Ethnic minorities prefer single sex schools" quite often but I don't buy it tbh.

In any event, as I said, for some, a lack of diversity will be an issue and for others it won't. As parents, we can exercise that choice and be respectful of that of others.

Interestingly, Alleyns does ensure that genders are balanced in their intake.

needmoresleep - my argument is that we all benefit from diversity. We benefit from being introduced to the ideas / cultures / viewpoints of others - this works for all of us and goes both ways to people in the majority and in the minority. My older dd goes to Alleyn's- that's my evidence. I don't disagree that A's is a wonderful school - but in my view it would be more wonderful if it were more diverse. And in some respects, to me it's the economic diversity that bothers me more. But as I said in a previous response that's a non starter. Until people start valuing diversity as something that benefits both those in the majority and those in the minority, nothing will ever change. St. D's is far more diverse - but then people will turn their noses up at St Ds and say oh it's not as selective so you can't compare!

I still dont get it. Yes St Dunstans is less selective, but its diversity may simply a feature of its catchment and its competition. Westminster, where DC went, was extremely diverse, and parents of friends of DC came from almost everywhere. Equally, and on average, the parent body is richer (but again seriously diverse.)

Unless you feel Alleyns treat applicants unequally, what do you expect the school to do? Do you want them to actively discriminate against white British children in favour of the mix of Russians, Americans, West and East Europeans, Latin Americans, South and East Asians, Afro-Caribbean, Middle Eastern, West African etc, whether first, second or third generation, who contribute to the diversity of most London private schools we have seen.

Oddly the growing concern of many schools seems to be that the middle classes are being squeezed out in favour of the super-rich. I would be careful what you wish for.

Lentils - when you say Alleyn's should be ‘concerned about diversity' what does this even mean? If they are selecting children on academic merit, which I strongly believe they are doing, what else are they meant to do?

My ds is at the school and his latest House photo certainly doesn’t show monoculturality.

Ladydepp....many schools, companies and organisations see the immense benefits that diversity brings.

By contrast it isn't as important for other schools or indeed some parents.

Much can be done to increase diversity, indeed, clearly Alleyns already do this to ensure gender balance in the school.

"Much can be done to increase diversity, indeed, clearly Alleyns already do this to ensure gender balance in the school"

I'm not sure that setting a quota is the answer. Especially as we don't know what the question would be. Because although you can see how many BME pupils there are (though you're not seeing all pupils when you go for a look around, so it's always a bit of a guess for outsiders) you cannot see 'other white'. So only those with access to school data can know the situation for the whole school, though parents will probably know quite a bit about their class/year group.

I'm not advocating quotas. I'm saying that there are many things that can be done to increase diversity if a school feels it's an issue.

I have no doubt that diversity brings enormous benefit, but as someone who grew up in a small city (not in UK) where virtually everyone was white and Christian (or atheist) it just surprises me that people find a school like Alleyn's so monocultural.

One of the reasons I love living in London is the diversity, not just of race but of sexuality, religion/lack of religion etc... and I feel that Alleyn's is very open minded in this respect.

Funnily enough when I looked round the school with my DH many years ago he said 'there are SO many girls'. We were told that the girl/boy ratio was very close to 50/50 but DH went to an all boys' school and he really thought it was about 90% girls.

I think that's the conundrum tbh. Alleyns really is a fantastic school in all aspects and has a very liberal ethos.

I wonder if that's why the perceived lack of diversity is so stark? (I.e it seems completely at odds with the rest of the unstuffy, liberal ethos and general feel of the school)

Ladydepp - maybe because you are comparing Alleyn's to your small city? Alleyn's is a London school and compared to other London schools it does not look as diverse. My ds tells me that even the dcs notice the lack of black dcs and he remembers a teacher mentioning it. Firefox - you are absolutely right that more can be done.WU recently started an outreach program that targets specific state schools and communities (of course, some cynics say it was to help protect their charitable status!).

So perhaps non-white families look around Alleyn's, see lots of white faces and then choose another school, thus unconsciously making the school less diverse?

Just a thought, I have no idea if many people think this way. I feel like I am colour blind but obviously that is easier if one is in the majority.

I still don't see what the school can do about it, without using quotas.

Quotas is a poisonous word...But we all know that indies have leeway who they take and they use it all the time. What if quotas started applying to the other values that an independent school said they represented. Would anyone be as uncomfortable? Independents say they look to balance out their intake taking all sorts of children, sparky, more thoughtful, sporty, more academic etc. Sometimes a more sporty child will be offered, even if their entrance exam was lower. How are these not quotas too at the end of the day? Would it make you feel less bad if your child was supplanted by a sparky, sporty child than an ethnic one?

Seriously?

That argument makes no sense to me. Children have no control of their ethnicity, but they can control how much music practice they do or how hard they revise, or how often they go to football training.

But can they control how "sparky" they are???

sorry but if you want 'diversity' go to a state school. What did you expect?