STAHS vs JAGS vs Wimbledon High

[4plus]

DD was very lucky to get 4+ offers from St Albans, Wimbledon and JAPS/JAGS which for us means facing a very difficult trilemma. I'd appreciate any info from local parents to help us decide.

A bit of a background: DD is reasonably bright but not exceptional, she is confident and sociable and already shows quite strong competitiveness, wants to be the first all the time and can get upset if she doesn't, though not too much. I think it should be managed somehow.

She has English as SL and is not fluent yet so I assume she scored high enough to get through because her other cognitive abilities are quite strong (though it's just my guess, we didn't get detailed feedback). She has an exceptionally good attention span for her age e.g. she can sit 100% focused through a 3hrs long ballet performance and can concentrate on reading/writing/colouring tasks for an hour.

She is very much into ballet now, has been doing it for 2 yrs and has an aptitude for it so is rather advanced already and absolutely loves it. I think we will continue until she's at least 13 but I wouldn't dream of a professional career in this field for her and we wouldn't like to look at a full time dance school even though we were advised to do so. She also does gymnastics.

She's been doing music for 2yrs and is very keen on violin. We as a family love music, go to concerts every week and several times a week on holidays (Southbank and Barbican are our usual places), and would really like the school with excellent music provision and results. However, we will do 1 on 1 tuition outside school anyway as no prep does violin from Reception and I'm not quite sure how it will fit into the school's music stream afterwards.

She also goes to a Saturday school in Camden which we want to continue.

All in all, at the moment it seems to me we will need a school that leaves enough time for outside extracurricular activities OR does music (possible?) and ballet (unlikely) to a very high standard comparable to the outside clubs and conservatoires.

We want to avoid 7+ and 11+ and really need to understand the actual situation with the cull at these three schools. This is one of the most important factors for us.

We're comfortable but not loaded so probably prefer a school with down to earth professional families.
I work from home and quite flexible so drop-off/pick-up is not a huge problem.

Sorry, long read but I thought I need to give an idea of our circumstances as we are trying to find out which school would be a better fit, overall.
Any ideas?

I don't think it's possible to properly 'tutor' for 4+.

But why oh why did they specifically tell they do not cull? Makes me really angry.
It's totally misleading and that's where unrealistic expectations grow from.

I know of parents who are jewish but send their dc to non jewish schools yet still want them to have some jewish friends... have you thought then about that when looking at options? Not sure your opinion of that though

We thought very carefully about Jewish education, my DS went to Jewish primary and we were very happy with it, we now have an inclusive school just around the corner, but in the end we thought we'd prefer to be part of a wider community. Same with my DS - he went to a grammar, not a Jewish secondary.
Lots of Jewish and non-Jewish friends from all over the world, this is London after all :)

"we actually looked at 15 top and mid-tier schools all over London, got 8 offers, shortlisted 3. Why not? We need to move anyway, just postponed that until the school is sorted. We're not after facilities as such, we are looking for a good fit for us as a family"

There's no reason at all why not. Though if course 'top and mid-tier' is entirely subjective. If good fit for your family is important, then relying on reputations and results leagues which go up and down like a yo-yo to sift for the short list may not be the most reliable.

It's not actually totally clear what you do want from a school to make it a 'good fit', because you have specified friendly parents (really can't select a school on that - all will have a mixture and it's something the school can't control, even the nicest school might have anomalous bad apples in your year - ditto for fellow pupils, incidentally).

There is indeed no 'safe' option. All schools will counsel out underperforming pupils. But diligent ones, who are keeping up, and who bring something to the life of the school will not be culled.

I your shoes, I wouldn't move house - keep your powder dry and move at 7+ if you need to. The school run she would have to do to reach St Albans sounds pretty tough. As you'd need both to move, but are choosing not move properly to the school's patch, then I think that (despite this sounding the school you like best by some distance) it would be the worst choice because it just sounds hostile to family life.

Could you say what you didn't like about PHS (and SCHS) as they are not your choices? It might help narrow down a bit what you want from a school, and make it easier to advise which of the two SW schools might fit better.

Dance at both is AFAIK ok, but serious ballerinas pursue it out of school.

Given that you might want to add that, have N London activities that you want your DD to stay with long term (enough to influence choice of area for potential house move), you do seem to be signing up for an awful lot of criss-crossing London. That is a pretty solid reason to choose the school with the easiest school run.

"But why oh why did they specifically tell they do not cull? Makes me really angry."

I thought WHS did oit cull, because I've also heard that directly from the school. But that was said to me in an 11+ context looking ahead to staying all through to A levels). I don't know for sure what happens or doesn't happen between juniors and main school.

The school should be able to tell you definitively. As it matters to you, then I suggest you email and ask.

It isn't a cull is it though. Schools like WHS are academically selective. If pupils aren't able to keep up they might be better served in a less academic school.

RaindropsAndSparkles WHS is not very academic so 8/48 is a huge cull for such a school. I could totally understand such numbers for NLCS but not for WHS.

All of the academically selective schools 'manage out' at 11+ and 13+ to a certain extent. It might not be an official cull but parents are made aware that their children are likely to be challenged in the senior school and take the 'hint'.

I'm afraid that's the danger of selecting at 4+ - it's not possible to be sure of how the child will develop academically.

AnotherNewt I can't say what I didn't like about PHS, it was just a very strong gut feeling. I didn't like the teachers and administrative staff. Something's false about them. Same with Alleyn's.

You can select schools on parents too. Many schools in Regents Park, Knightsbridge and some parts of SW is a big no straight away.

"Good fit" is probably academic but not obsessed about STEM, not extremely pressurised and not culling massively.

I nearly decided on WHS before I've seen the numbers... :(

Hi 4plus,
my experience is of JAGS. there are some over pushy parents and some super smart parents, and some like me who are not pushy and very very not designer-y. i wear mainly Tu by Sainsbury! A mixed bag. If music is your thing, they are just building a massive new music block. Also, don't get hung up on the cull. The Prep tells a couple of parents a year that their daughter wouldn't be happy at the senior school and IME the parents should listen. I went to an academic London school and watched the girls who scraped in and bumped along the bottom have their confidence completely obliterated. These are girls who were A/B for GCSE instead of A/A* being led to believe they were thick and useless. If the school tell you she would be happier elsewhere then she will be happier elsewhere. There are other less hothouse-y options in the area (Streatham and Clapham, Sydenham High) if your daughter turns out at 9 to not be happy with hothousing. 4 is very early to know. JAGS is fantastic and we're currently very happy -but these schools are amazing for some girls, and utterly poisonous for others.

4+. You have a four year old. She needs a school. All you have to do is send her to a nice primary around the corner. All will be well and with love, support and happiness she will survive wherever she goes.

We applied for one school for DS (made an error with DD who had a change afterwards to WHS). One graduated from Oxford, one on way to Cambridge.

You are massively over thinking this.

OP - she's 3. You're the only one who truly knows her. Why would you listen to random comments from strangers on here when making your final selection?

So Alleyns seems fake and JAGs is no good because some woman wore some fancy shoes and didn't say hello?!

If these 3 schools are your shortlist then surely the key thing now is about where you can imagine living - or indeed whether she should just stay in her current pre prep until 7 when her aptitudes are clearer?

fleurdelacourt I'm not listening to strangers' comments about my child. I need to find some info about the schools. Which I did so the thread was definitely very helpful.

I never said JAGS is no good.

OP - anecdotal information from random strangers is still not a good basis for where you are planning to live for the next 14 years?

IME returning to the schools (several times if necessary) to speak to staff is the best way to get a feel for the schools.

OK so you didn't say JAGs was no good - but you actually asked the question about whether a Louboutin wearing snob was representative of the parent body. That just seemed a strange perspective.

Actually, Zodlebud comments did help me a lot to get the grip on St Albans traffic and locations, I didn't think I would need to live in Wheathampsted, not even near the station which I would prefer if we move. So I'm getting the info I need :)

We need to pay a deposit before 2 Feb if JAGS so I don't have time to visit. I'm going to WHS tomorrow and St Albans on Friday. But if I didn't start this thread I would not have known about the cull at WHS as they tell exactly the opposite things. Again, the thread was very helpful to prepare for the meeting.

Why is it a strange perspective on parents? Some schools are notorious for that, I had no idea about JAGS in this respect and just wanted to double check.

Whatever works for you. Personally we went back lots of times. And I would never shortlist a school without having visited all relevant parts of it a few times.

Hope it all works out.

fleurdelacourt you're definitely more wise and more organised than I am.

Not at all. You clearly just want the best for your dd. Comments that you get on these threads about the merits of different options are often biased - that's all I was trying to say.

All 3 are good schools. There is no bad decision for your dd. There may be one location which would suit you better as a family but only you can be the judge of that.

Re "the cull".

Short of unforeseen learning difficulties that crop up later, I don't think you'd be the kind of parent to let your DD fall behind in any of these schools. They are really not THAT hugely pressuring schools. If anything, I think you should consider which one will stretch your DD enough to meet your expectations. Also, not everyone that leaves are culled, even in non-culling schools there will be a few that leave for whatever family reasons.

I'd try a dry run of your journey on a bad weather day from Barnet (journey from Hadleywood will be hugely different from Finchley though) Maybe even when the M25 and M1 are having problems and the roads are heaving.

Anyways, good luck! See you Friday

We're all biased of course as we have our personal preferences etc.
It's the cull statistics at WHS that saddened me. I would happily go for the safest option...

See you on Friday Stareyed! :)

Speaking of which, are you bringing DD on Friday?

I'm not sure yet, are you bringing yours? :)
Will they be able to participate in class activities?

I totally agree that it's bizarre to be deciding where to base your family on the basis of such a statistic and I would say if you are settled in N London and it suits your family and community links then for heaven's sake stay because you have some great offers there.
However anyone who doubts the veracity of that statistic below should feel free to check it. Maybe it was just an unusual year - the previous years were nothing like - but the school is hugely popular at 11+ now and the head ambitious so it's understood that will affect transfer process from now on.