STAHS vs JAGS vs Wimbledon High

[4plus]

DD was very lucky to get 4+ offers from St Albans, Wimbledon and JAPS/JAGS which for us means facing a very difficult trilemma. I'd appreciate any info from local parents to help us decide.

A bit of a background: DD is reasonably bright but not exceptional, she is confident and sociable and already shows quite strong competitiveness, wants to be the first all the time and can get upset if she doesn't, though not too much. I think it should be managed somehow.

She has English as SL and is not fluent yet so I assume she scored high enough to get through because her other cognitive abilities are quite strong (though it's just my guess, we didn't get detailed feedback). She has an exceptionally good attention span for her age e.g. she can sit 100% focused through a 3hrs long ballet performance and can concentrate on reading/writing/colouring tasks for an hour.

She is very much into ballet now, has been doing it for 2 yrs and has an aptitude for it so is rather advanced already and absolutely loves it. I think we will continue until she's at least 13 but I wouldn't dream of a professional career in this field for her and we wouldn't like to look at a full time dance school even though we were advised to do so. She also does gymnastics.

She's been doing music for 2yrs and is very keen on violin. We as a family love music, go to concerts every week and several times a week on holidays (Southbank and Barbican are our usual places), and would really like the school with excellent music provision and results. However, we will do 1 on 1 tuition outside school anyway as no prep does violin from Reception and I'm not quite sure how it will fit into the school's music stream afterwards.

She also goes to a Saturday school in Camden which we want to continue.

All in all, at the moment it seems to me we will need a school that leaves enough time for outside extracurricular activities OR does music (possible?) and ballet (unlikely) to a very high standard comparable to the outside clubs and conservatoires.

We want to avoid 7+ and 11+ and really need to understand the actual situation with the cull at these three schools. This is one of the most important factors for us.

We're comfortable but not loaded so probably prefer a school with down to earth professional families.
I work from home and quite flexible so drop-off/pick-up is not a huge problem.

Sorry, long read but I thought I need to give an idea of our circumstances as we are trying to find out which school would be a better fit, overall.
Any ideas?

If I were making your decision then I would consider the schools, of course, but given the move then I'd also consider quite seriously where we wanted to live for the next c.14 years. The three areas are all quite different in my opinion. Would deciding amongst the neighbourhoods help inform your decision too? Or are you equally happy with all three as a place for your DD to grow up? Good luck deciding!

I’m a few years ahead of you (looking at 11+ places) and I’ve got a daughter for whom dance is an important part of her life. We’ve been looking at some of the same schools - my conclusion has been that nowhere will cater to the amount of dance she wants to do, so the commute is the critical thing. It needs to be short enough to get home and do dance classes after school several days a week, while still having time for eating / sleeping / homework / music practice.

Yes justsignedup2018 spot on, it's a huge anxiety for me, not just the school but also the area to live. We're more N London now and love it, but 15 years ago lived in Putney so Wimbledon area feels familiar too, though it might have changed a lot. Dulwich is terra incognita for me. We don't have to commute to the office so it's not my concern, rather the feel of the place... We're not loaded, I'm in art business but nothing glamorous, just in the field of affordable art, DP has retired early, we're from the continent originally, different countries, 7 languages at home, Jewish but not religious...

Thank you FlumePlume. Do you think it's better to stay in London to have access to dance schools/teachers? I've no idea what can be found in St Albans... The town centre looks lively but what's beyond it, I wonder...

I think happy children become successful children and adults and that what suits them at 4 might not at 11 or 16 or 21.

Personally we thought WHS was spot on in context of encouragment, academics and nurture. Ours started at nice state primaries and moved from there to WHS/KCS. DS completely alpha. DD v quiet and seemingly middle ability at 4, 7, 11. At 18 she dropped 5 UMS points at A'Level and has a confirmed offer for Cambridge.

I think you need go relax and let the lass be. If she likes dancing let her dance but for pleasure. It won't really matter which of those schools she goes to; being part of a community, love and happiness will. Let her be her, not who you want her to be in 14 years.

RaindropsAndSparkles I don't really know who I want her to be TBH :) Otherwise I won't be agonising over schools, I would have known for sure that I want SPGS or The Royal Ballet School and wouldn't accept anything else

It's much much easier to know what you want from your children and their future. I don't :)

Anyway, I hear only positive things about WHS and that's reassuring.

If you lived in the St Albans area then your daughter could access the Tring Park Associates classes (after school classes not the full time school ones). However, the traffic around St Albans is a disaster so you would need to be VERY careful to live on the Wheathampsted side closer to the school. It is most definitely not a commute I would want to be doing from Barnet with such a young child even before adding in all the extra curricular stuff. I think it would be a mistake to even consider it unless you are prepared to move out of London.

I liked the prep at St Albans but the senior school left me rather underwhelmed. The head was fabulous but the facilities are little dated in places, the playing fields aren’t on site and the girls just seemed a little flat. Perhaps worn out? There was no buzz about the place at all. Just a lot of very clever girls doing their thing.

To be honest I think you are overthinking it. You obviously want “the best” for your daughter but that can change an awful lot between the ages of 4 and 18. What if your daughter just wants to dance? If she really is that good and wants to audition for the Royal Ballet School at 11 / 13 / 16 then would you let her? What about a talented musician and onto a specialist music school? What if you send her to a school now and isn’t allowed to continue to the senior school at 11? What if she excels at a sport that is much better supported at a different school? What if she is super stellar academically and you decide it’s Wycombe Abbey at 11?

The reality is these aren’t questions you can answer right now. What you do know is that there are extra curricular activities that you need to keep in your life and what your daughter likes now. Choose the school where you feel you best fit in. Are they likeminded in their approach to education as to your parenting style? Don’t be swayed by GCSE and A-level results or facilities. Where did you feel most at home - what is your gut reaction saying?

They are all great schools and for that reason it really won’t matter which one you choose right now. Choose the one that makes your life easiest and you know your daughter will be happy at.

4plus I know of a very good dance school in Wimbledon but I have no idea about the other areas - though I suspect there would be, given the demographics.

I think that you might find you had to travel further / be more involved in St Albans for high quality dance, though. Not just thinking local classes (though I would guess they would be more likely to be accessible by driving rather than public transport) but also getting to youth ballet, Associates schemes and the like. Personally, I prefer a set up where children can make their own way to and from school and extra-curricular activities, once they’re in upper KS2 or older. But that’s because I have work commitments, it may well be less of an issue for you.

Thank you Zodlebud that's very valuable input! So the traffic is bad even if we lived close to the school? How do they manage with school buses?
I did get a similar feeling about the girls at prep, not particularly flat, but rather quiet, thoughtful maybe, too serious... something along these lines. Certainly no buzz. It's not necessarily a bad thing for me, I just marked it as STAHS 'type'.

Tring Park is fab, thank you for reminding me!

My gut feeling resonated with both Wimbledon and STAHS No particular feeling about JAGS, neither positive nor negative.

Re all that question that can't have any answer now, I totally agree. But what can I do... I have to decide right now, with only limited information and no crystal ball to see the future :)

FlumePlume do you mind to share the name of the dance school?
TIA!

Hi,
I have a daughter at JAPS and one at Alleyn’s. JAPS is fab! The teaching is excellent, parents are lovely (as far as I know!) and my daughter loves going to school

One thing that put me off JAGS on the assessment day (though it's not the school's fault at all) was when a lady in Louboutin over-the-knee boots entered a room and I said hello and she didn't reply hmm. Is that common for JAGS parents?

Can't speak for all parents at the school but certainly none like that in our year group or the ones I have met in other years at the pre-prep.
FWIW - we drive a second hand, non-luxury car and my shoes are high street! Clearly, none of us are on the breadline if we are paying fees but not many of us are super wealthy. Lots of children have two working parents.

Having said that, if you are not feeling then listen to your gut.
Good luck - nice position to be in!

"One thing that put me off JAGS on the assessment day (though it's not the school's fault at all) was when a lady in Louboutin over-the-knee boots entered a room and I said hello and she didn't reply hmm. Is that common for JAGS parents?"

If at an assessment day, then she's not a JAGS parent, just a prospective parent and as typical of the school body as you are.

It seems strange to be lookin at 2 SW London schools and one outside London to the north. If you want space and facilities, the St Albans seems like a no-brainer.

I'd caution gpagainsy moving to SW London for either of the other two unless you are very sure it is right.

You could try again at 7+ but not for those two. Try Streatham and Clapham and Putney - both have excellent gymnastics, and go through to 18. And by 7 you'll have a better idea what sort of school will suit your DD.

Don't fret about league tables - you can talk yourself round in utter circles, wondering if the year you are looking at is typical (a thought that came to my mind as JAGS is usually streets ahead of Wimbledon.

Great to hear from JAGS parents! :)

Do you mind telling me how many girls have to leave at 7 and 11, roughly? Please PM me if you prefer. I know it's going on at all top schools, just need to estimate the risks.

And how is music there? Is the school more about STEM etc or is there space for all types? Is it very competitive?

At 4 you send your child to the best local school with the best vibe and where you think she will be happiest.

At 4 they still need messy play, quiet time, snack time, out door play, friendships, etc. She's 4. You have choices. Just be sensible. New school, new himebis a big step for littlies.

AnotherNewt we actually looked at 15 top and mid-tier schools all over London, got 8 offers, shortlisted 3. Why not? We need to move anyway, just postponed that until the school is sorted. We're not after facilities as such, we are looking for a good fit for us as a family.

I'd caution gpagainsy moving to SW London for either of the other two unless you are very sure it is right.
May I ask why?
And why can we not try for Wimbledon and JAGS at 7?

I didn't like Putney at all, didn't even apply after an open day. That was a very strong gut feeling

I think within top tier the difference between GCSE results is negligible and in any case a bright child can have a string of A*-As at a good comprehensive too. I'm not obsessed with league tables, we need a good fit of a school and no 11+ for my sanity :)

I have heard of one girl being asked to leave Jags. I think they are keen to support all of the girls and that a girl would only be asked to leave if she was really struggling.
Music excellent. Brand new music centre just being completed.
What I particularly like about jags is the focus on charity and community. There are many senior school bursaries, pencil cases are sent to schools abroad, lots of charity work.

What if you uproot yourselves and move to be near a school which then turns out to be the wrong fit for your dd? You seem to be very sure she’s good at dance, and good at music etc but she’s still in nursery school - she might not have found her ‘thing’ yet, in fact very probably hasn’t ...

I know you’re saying you don’t want to go through the 11+ but it’s only very stressful if you let it become so. I am not a big fan of all-through schools as in my experience most children aren’t happy staying st the same place, with the same peer group for their entire school career - the majority relish the opportunity to reinvent themselves at some point, to make different friends, be in different surroundings etc

If you want (or more importantly she wants) to keep all the extracurricular stuff going then choosing the school with the shortest journey makes sense.

You also say you’re not loaded and your dp is retired - have you considered sending her to your local state school for a while instead? You’d save thousands of pounds in fees and she’d have more time to explore what she really likes doing. The early years curriculum is virtually identical in both sectors - my dd was at our local state primary until she moved to an independent school in Y3 and was happily at the top of the ability range in both schools and had no problems adjusting.

PS what does your ds think about a potential move?

The traffic is notoriously bad in and around St Albans. Wheathampstead itself is ok though. The school buses just pick up extra early to get there!!!!! Girls do travel in from far and wide to get there but more for the senior school TBH. That half an hour journey can easily become an hour.

Yes you do have to choose a school now but you can change your mind at 11 or 13. Whilst your reasons for wanting an all through school are sound, you are not committed for ever. You might not want to go through it but if you feel it’s right then you will.

You could open yourself up to a whole new world. Rodean, Heathfield, Wycombe Abbey, Queenswood all accept day girls, have weekly boarding and have girls commute to and from London.

I’m just saying you don’t need to plan everything to the letter right now. Keep an open mind and don’t let the stress of the crazy London stuff get to you. We moved out of London for schools. There is far less pressure for places at many of the independents in suburbia. Still competition don’t get me wrong but nothing like the stress and agro in London. We have whittled down our choices to three - a grammar, an independent with excellent results considering they are non- selective, and a “banker” which is a fabulous independent with a never ending supply of extra curricular stuff.

A couple of years ago I was all about Habs and Wycombe Abbey. My daughters are just not like that. They wouldn’t be happy at either. It took me ages to get my head around not giving them “the best”. The reality is that they will have the best if it really meets their needs.

You seem to be very sure she’s good at dance, and good at music etc but she’s still in nursery school - she might not have found her ‘thing’ yet, in fact very probably hasn’t ...

I know next to nothing about ballet, her ballet teachers told us to consider more serious commitment. Dance career is very short, they start looking for aptitude early. I'm not very keen on it particularly for that very reason - it's very short with no further path. It's something she enjoys most at the moment so I just let her enjoy it for the time being.

I didn't say she's good at music. She's just very keen on violin but her aptitude seems to be average.

I haven't met a parent who didn't find 11+ very stressful. And I just know for myself that I don't want to go through it again. It's not healthy for anyone involved.

We did consider a Jewish state school but in the end decided we'd rather go private.

I think that's all valid points Zodlebud, I will need to think it over again, with all comments in view. Yes, it's very difficult to tell at the moment what would be the right fit, perhaps I should go for a school that leaves more further options open...

Very helpful indeed, thank you everyone!

8/48 girls were culled from latest Year to sit in WH Juniors and did not have a place in Seniors (although they were told well in advance). It's understood they will be taking a more aggressive approach to Transfer now school is very popular at 11+. That's not counting any screened out much earlier if real difficulties show themselves.

OMG that's too horrible! There is no safe option for us then...

Girls and boys who are "culled" tend to be those who have been tutored and have parents with unrealistic expectations ime.