How important are Year 6 SATs?

[catsarenice]

DS is in yr 6 and SATs are obviously approaching. The school are going on and on about them so much and I know that they are important for their data. How important are they for the children? Every secondary school we looked at said they will look at the results but do CATs (think that's what they're called) within the first couple of weeks of term to determine what sets they will be in anyway.

SATs are purely for the measurement of teaching within primary schools

They’re not, they’re also used for the measurement of teaching in secondary schools (as a baseline) and are currently also used to set GCSE grade boundaries nationally.

Except that they are judged purely on whether they've met the targets generated by those SAT results or not

Not at DDs high school they're not. We had parents evening 2 weeks back. Their bit of paper predicted grade 5's and 6s based on her SATs and every member of staff I spoke to said that prediction was worth absolutely nothing and if my DD didn't get 7's and 8s across the board they'd eat their hats.

Schools really don't stick to SATs results, every head teacher I know (I'm a governor at a college so I meet a good number) says they don't take any notice of SATs for their students, they just do the motions as requested by the Government and then make up their own minds. They have a look at the SATs then have a look at their own grading and produce school reports and predictions based on their own results and evidence.

Not at DDs high school they're not

It's not the school's decision to make. They are judged externally by the powers that be on targets that are set for them.

It's really odd that as a governor you don't understand that.

Read noblegiraffe's post above.

I'm very far away from SATs as my only DS is 2, but am already worrying about school pressure as I have so many bad memories!

Anyway just quickly - is how someone does at 10 / 11 rally affect how well they'd do at 16? That seems crazy - surely anything could happen in those intervening years. Thanks, is just something I've always wondered!

"A target is a target and doesn't actually mean much in real terms" actually it means a lot when that's what the school is judged by and secondary schools are expected to meet the targets set by the DfE based on KS2 results and measured by Progress 8

They have a look at the SATs then have a look at their own grading and produce school reports and predictions based on their own results and evidence.

This is all fine and dandy but, ultimately, the pupil and the secondary will be judged against their progress made from KS2 SATs - that isn't optional.

The school may find that the targets that they set are generally higher than those predicted from SATs, in which case they are quite 'safe' not to place too much weight on SATs. However, if their approach of ignoring progress from SATs gives students lower predictions and lower grades than the average for students with the same SATs starting point across the country, their progress results will be shocking.

My guess is that the school talk to parents about ignoring SATs, but in fact in the background some data wonk is frantically creating graphs that DO use SATs and then tweaking pupils' targets and interventions as a result.

Data wonk! 😂😂

Ooh I want to be a data wonk...It sounds fun 😂

(In DC's school, I know that teachers are allowed to raise targets from those generated by FFT from SATs results .... so to that extent they ignore the SATs results if the school's predictions are higher, based on their in-school results.

However, they are NOT allowed to lower a pupil's targets from the SATs data-extrapolated ones. They can, and do, talk about why it is completely reasonable not to expect an individual child to meet their targets based on e.g. illness or disruptions in their home life, but the target itself is not lowered)

Surely there must be the occasional child that transfers in from elsewhere never having been tested what would happen to that child?

Of course.

Those children are also not counted in the government's Progress8 calculation, so schools will differ in how their targets are set. Some will use their own tests, some will use performance in class, some will give a school or national average set of targets. Locally, grammar schools take so many children from private primaries that their progress results only reflect less than 75% of their pupils, whereas for the comprehensives it's more like 90-95%.

I agree can't. 'We don't pay attention to SATs' means 'we don't pay attention to actual SATs results for each child while paying very close attention to all sorts of things that are generated from those SATs results. My school definitely has a data wonk so many colour-coded spreadsheets!

I don't think there are very many schools who are so amazing that they can afford to ignore government progress measures.

while paying very close attention to all sorts of things that are generated from those SATs results.

Exactly. 'I don't know or care what your child's SATs results were, but I DO know - and am made to care very much about - what their GCSE targets are, which are generated by feeding their SATs results into a computer model....'

Just seems so silly - at parents' evenings the teacher was talking about how dc had to get secure plus as was given level 3 from ks1 SATs. Seems absolutely bonkers that gcse targets are based from tests they took aged 6!!!!!!

And the Dfe want to replace KS1 assessment with Reception baseline assessments in 2020.....

So their whole future will be predicted from age 4?! Bonkers!!!!!

Yep cats if your kids can't read, write essays and do complicated fractions at 4 they'll never amount to anything. Best not even bother sending them to school in the first place eh? 😉

@metalmum15 ah mine will be fine then - could do all those things aged 2. (Not a stealth boast )

No, their GCSE targets are only based on KS2 targets. If they have high KS2 targets but fail to meet them (no one knows how targets will work in relation to new Reception assessments once KS1 tests are scrapped) then their GCSE targets will be lower than if they had high KS2 targets and met them.

@noblegiraffe but aren't their ks2 targets based on ks1 results?

Sorry, I meant GCSE targets are set based on actual KS2 results, not KS2 targets.

KS2 targets only affect their primary school though e.g. Questions might be asked by ofsted if lots of kids in a primary do above average at KS1 but below at KS2.

It is the actual KS2 results that are used to set GCSE targets.

Yes Alexander it's just so harsh the way the school is putting all this pressure on the children and telling them that what they got at ks1 means they HAVE to get x in their SATS. Extra lessons after school, in easter holidays etc when it is clear that the results mean an awful lot more for the school than the children.

Do schools really have Easter holiday sessions? And after school? Would have been no good for us as Dd had numerous dance classes after school & we always go on holiday at Easter (I'm making an exception this year as Dd sits her GCSE's in May).