Repeating Year 6 - from furious mum!

[Melzie7]

Hello
I need some advice and what better place to come (I hope). To cut a long story short, on Friday I was met at the school gate (I never usually get to the school gate as I'm always at work) by DDs head who casually said 'I've been talking to (DD) about repeating Year 6 as she's getting really anxious in tests'. I know DD struggles with tests but she is a bright girl (I'm a secondary teacher) who needs extra time as she is a slow processor (undiagnosed). Whilst the school has flagged up things in the past, I've been told she is dyspraxia, has ADHD, etc etc but when asked about intervention nothing has been done and another year passes. To be told on Friday that she should repeat the year left me gobsmacked and I didn't know what to say other than 'we should meet after half term to discuss'. When I got home I was furious, and still am. My DD is an October birthday (today actually) and quite socially mature so this would be devastating for her confidence. I wouldn't mind (well I would actually) but she is really quite a clever girl and in terms of emotional intelligence she is streets ahead of many other kids in this respect. I really don't know what to say to the school without going off on one.......any advice out there? I think it probably comes down to lack of funding for extra support but surely having a child in the school for another year costs the school more?

You can’t just disapply children, last year I dis applied one because she joined the country 2 months before the sats with 0 English. Even that was a struggle!! Also it would have a consequence on the schools results over all. I’ve never heard of children being held back a year unless it’s circumstances that can’t have been helped.
To the poster who said sats aren’t important (I agree they aren’t in the big picture) but this is how children are assessed in secondary’s now. The sats score they go in with will affect their progress 8 in secondary so if you have a child who achieved greater depth they will be expected to be getting A’s under the new system.

Any child working below Key Stage expectations ( so still working at Key Stage 1) can be disapplied

Pupils shouldn’t take the tests if any of the following apply:

They have not completed the relevant Key Stage 2 programme of Sudy

they are working below the overall standard of the KS2 tests (and are considered to be unable to answer the easiest questions)

They are unable to participate even when using appropriate access arrangements

The interim pre Key Stage standards should be used to provide a statutory assessment outcome for pupils that have not completed the relevant programme of study or who are working below the standard of the tests. Administering a KS2 test to a pupil who is known to be working below the standard of the test at the time may result in a maladministration investigation. Section 7 includes further guidance about TA at the end of KS2.

If a headteacher decides a pupil shouldn’t take one or more of the tests, they must report this decision to the parents. See section 10.2 for information about reporting to parents for pupils who have not participated in the tests.

My DS just started year 7. He has ADHD and has been on medication for 18 month now.

I can honestly say that year six was a total waste of time for him. Autumn term was entirely taken up by school visits and tests and aptitude tests for various schools, spring term was entirely spent going on and on and on about SATS, worrying about SATS, not sleeping, worrying about not having done enough work for SATS, and so on. The summer term was spent doing SATS and then jostling socially with the transition to secondary, bullies in his year, people talking about who fancied who and generally becoming to big for primary school. I can’t for the life of me see why anyone would want to repeat that! I wish I’d just taken him out after Christmas!

Aside from this - my experiences that are relevant to you:

get a referral to OT - your daughter sounds like she has dyspraxia/and or hypermobility.

Get her a Stabilo Easy Start pen to use - much easier to hold.

She needs to see OT to get some appropriate strength excercises for her hands

Pay for touch typing lessons - this is a win-win as you never forget it and it’s a confidence building skill. She may then be allowed to use a computer for writing (and in secondary more likely)

Get thee to CAMHS, get a proper diagnosis for ADHD and whatever else. Seriously consider medication.

Consider paying for private ADHD assessment. I would have done this if I’d know it would take 2.5 years!

Medication: DS honestly and truly lost two years of school to not being able to sit still and focus on anything - even when he wanted to. The first day he went to school in meds’ the teacher came out in tears holding a piece of writing that he had done that was a million miles from the previous day. He says it makes him feel ‘cleverer’, and our experience is that he is able to control his emotion more and he’s not spending all his waking hours concentrating on keeping it together. He is still very much himself. At the beginning of Y6 he was behind in maths, and by the end he was near the top of a class of very able kids: due to medication.

The HT sounds mad. Choose your secondary well. DS much happier now (and I didn’t expect him to be)

Everyone on here has been soooo helpful and I am so incredibly grateful to you all for taking the time to provide advice etc. I saw my educational psychologist friend this morning and she gave me some useful advice so the next step if for me to talk with CAMHS on Monday about ADHD assessment and then to meet with HT at the end of the week, EP friend says she will do an assessment if necessary. I'm keen to get DD all ththe support I can and whilst this whole debacle with the HT wanting to keep DD back a year has come as a huge shock, actually maybe the silver lining is that we can investigate the issues properly, get the support in place now (even if the school aren't going to be helpful) and enable DD to move up to secondary on time and with the necessary skills, medication or whatever she needs, firmly established. Let's hope anyway.

For those saying that children are not kept back in y6, I can confirm that sometimes, in some circumstances, it does happen. It happened at my own school a couple of years ago. There was though, a very specific set of circumstances which made it desirable - the school had been supporting the child throughout ks2 and continued to do so when y6 was repeated. Sadly, the same cannot be said of the secondary school the child ended up in.
As for the implications in the later years, this is indeed an issue - my own DC needed to restart sixth form after a traumatic incident in y12 left them floundering. The deciding factor was that their birthdate (fortunately) meant they would have finished sixth form just before their 19th birthday.

I wonder if there has been a mis-communication here.
Perhaps the Head used words which were poorly chosen and not really what she meant - ie not actually suggesting staying back in primary next year, but perhaps doing some work with current Yr 5s, or something else. It seems so unlikely that a Head would suggest this in the way mentioned, without any prior indication if it being thought about and no assessments having been carried out.

I would organise for that meeting early next week with the Head. I would approach it as 'after you spoke to me, I was really confused, because I thought you referred to X staying here for another year instead of moving into Yr 7, which I'm sure can't be what you meant'

It sounds like there are lots of issues which need addressing. You need to start being firm with the school about really progressing any assessments and making provision for your DD, as well as clarifying her current performance and the future with SATs etc.

Definitely put in the CAF for schools if you haven't already.

I hope it all gets clarified quickly - I suspect it will turn out not to be that they want to keep DD in the primary for an extra year.

“Lots of primary schools avoid paying an ed psych because of cost” actually Primary schools don’t pay for Ed Psych services it’s provided by the LA.

Not everywhere. Some LAs only pay for stat assessment work and schools have to pay for anything above and beyond that.

Not quite true the Local Authority must provide Educational Authority services to maintained schools but many struggle to provide more than “essential” support due to reduced funding and a decline in numbers of Ed Psychs.
Many schools including mine buy in additional time but with reduced SEN budgets schools just don’t have money either. Schools and services need to be adequately funded.

Are we saying the same thing mrz? Is 'educational authority services ' to maintained schools more than simply stating asst? From memory there are a fair few LAs who don't provide anything beyond their statutory obligation

I know DD struggles with tests but she is a bright girl (I'm a secondary teacher) who needs extra time as she is a slow processor (undiagnosed). Whilst the school has flagged up things in the past, I've been told she is dyspraxia, has ADHD, etc etc but when asked about intervention nothing has been done and another year passes.

And what have YOU done about this? Who diagnosed the slow processing? You? And what sort of 'medication' do you think will help??

Re it being sore to write, sounds like dyspraxia or hypermobility. Is she unduly flexible in any other joints?

If school has been flagging up concerns for years but nothing has been done, I'd have been a lot more bloody proactive.

Make an appt to speak to the HT. Say your dd will not be repeating Year 6 (insane. V unprofessional of the HT to be springing this on you now. And what does she think will change in the next year?? Will she ask your dd to repeat Year 6 infinitely?)

Nice response there from the previous poster! Harsh but I like the fact you care enough to speak out and thank you!

Because school have always been a bit wishy washy about what they think has been wrong in the past I've never really had reason not to trust their judgement. I'm not a primary teacher and I don't teach in the state sector so am a bit in the dark about funding and age related expectations at primary level. The fact my daughter attended a science course in the summer at a local museum and the educator told me that she was a bright girl filled me with hope. Recently she's come out with some brilliant knowledge and I ask her where she learnt it and she usually tells me 'from YouTube' (I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or not but it seems to be teaching her more about the world than school does). Anyway, I'm now going to get her assessed with an EP (thankfully a relative has offered to pay) and also an appointment with a behavioural optimetrist (another relative is paying for that) as DD has told me she reads better if things are on blue paper....not that the school have identified that, she's looked it up on YouTube and tried it with me printing onto various colours with blue working best. I've spoken to CAMHS and they will be speaking to the school and hopefully organising for a Conners Assessment to take place. The hypermobility is an issue in her thumb and shoulder and we think her knee/foot but that is under investigation aside from school issues at present. Anyway, we have an appt with HT tomorrow morning so will see how that goes. Fortunately my husband is very good at 'discussions which need action'. BUT I just wanted to share today's 'news'.....which I'm furious about. DD came out of school saying 'the HT wanted to see you'. I'm avoiding all contact with HT until tomorrow so we scarpered! Anyway DD said that the latest is that it's been suggested to her she doesn't do French any more and instead does 'cooking with the other children who need help'. These other children include those who are unable to access the curriculum. They are all lovely kids but with BIG needs, physically, socially, bevaiourally and emotionally. DD finds French a bore (but is actually good at speaking it, just not reading and writing it). Whilst she would much rather do cooking (as would I) she has to do French at secondary school so I feel she should get a grounding in that (I can teach her cooking at home - especially as I teach food and nutrition at KS3). Perhaps this is HTs attempt to provide support/adjustments but it's just made me mad, especially as once again she has told DD before mentioning it to me. I'll update tomorrow after the meeting. Once again, thank you everyone for being so supportive and offering such great advice/feedback. It means a lot.

I hope the meeting goes well.

Fwiw, I would be livid at HT suggesting such things to my daughter without discussing it with me first.

How did the meeting go Melzie?

I have worked in Primary schools for 30 years and have never heard of this before - a HT just randomly suggesting a child should sit Y6.
This sort of thing takes ages to get past all the red-tape and would usually only be agreed for a child with quite significant SEN. It is very rare that any children are allowed to repeat a year and it wouldn't usually have got as far as Y6 before it was mooted.

It sounds like the HT was talking bs and just sounding off because of frustration or something. Is it an academy? Even they have to fit in with the system even though they think they can do what they want.

If you are still concerned, contact the LA parent support agency (called SIAS where I am) and ask for advice/support.

I would be furious too. How do you feel about just saying thanks but no thanks, asking if they are going to apply for extra time for SATs and 11 plus and if the answer is no tell you DD that things will change when she gets to secondary. It sounds as if she needs an EP assessment to pick up the slow processing. If you can get the head to put the suggestion that she repeat a year in writing then you have some evidence that he feels they haven't met her needs so could ask for an EP assessment/EHCP assessment. Of you could just get a private assessment - it sounds as if the primary school will ignore it so you might just want to work out the secondary that will best meet her needs and leave her happily enjoying school till then. If her school decide not to apply for extra time to allow her to complete the SATs then a disappointing result is their loss really so long as she understands the SATs are to determine her teachers pay rise not her worth.

OP, I’m sorry I haven’t RTFT, but just to say we had a private EP. We were expecting ADHD and possibly ODD and got hyper mobility, dyspraxia and aspergers.... best to go in with someone who can diagnose the lot rather than just an adhd specialist, if you can manage it...

Melzie, my DD is now in year 11, but up to year 9 she was doing very well in French, especially her written work. But because she is shy and speaks quietly, they moved her off French and into ASDAN which is made up of all the 'special' children.
Even the teacher there can't understand why she has been moved and it's boring the hell out of her as she finishes all the work five times faster than all the others.
They now allow her to go to the school library and revise. At least she gets something out of it.

How did the meeting go?

I would probably avoid feeling furious and instead concentrate on having that meeting with the Head so that everything can be clarified, rather than relying on info which is passed on ....which as a teacher, you must know, might not be 100% accurate.

I too find it odd that you as a teacher haven't done anything until now to get your DD assessed when she has clearly been performing below expectations in both Infants and Juniors. It is good that you have now arranged assessments. These will be very important. They will be important for you as a parent but also for the current and future school to decide what is right for your DD and to make special provision for her. Until those assessments come back, the school and you won't really know what is the right way forward. Therefore you just need to continue with your expectation of moving to Secomdary....and it is likely the school is expecting that too....they couldn't seriously be wanting to hold her back in primary without a formal diagnosis to support that and even then it would be highly unusual.....and for this reason I don't imagine they are actually saying that.

Re French....well, if your DD has significant learning difficulties, it may well be that French simply isn't appropriate for her. As a Secondary teacher you will know that those with real difficulties with English don't tend to do languages. This is course should be discussed with you and I'm sure you can discuss that in the meeting with the HT.

So have you had that meeting now? As a teacher, I would imagine you would be balanced and calm in your approach to all of this rather than furious, that you would be keen to talk with the Head rather than avoid and that you would be helping to drive all of this forward in a positive and constructive way. It's all rather odd.

This whole thread is nuts sorry.
YOU can go to gp and ask for Camhs referral and do connors assessment.

If she is year six she will have done her 11plus already. Was anything in place for test?

I just don’t understand (as a teacher) and with three sons (two with Asd) that nothing was ever picked up. I have never had anyone kept Back. It’s a travesty and I would be looking at ofsted involvement. You

With regards to your daughter reading better with blue paper- you can buy coloured overlays that she can take with her and use anywhere.

Hope it gets sorted

Hello all. Thanks again for all your words of kindness and encouragement. I wanted to update as to where we are at. DH and I saw the HT a couple of weeks ago and expressed our fury at me being told at the school gate about G needing to stay behind a year. She told us it was more for emotional reasons as she would currently not be able to cope with the transition as she needs TLC.....bull*t! DD needs a change and less namby pambying. We were told that with her being so far behind she probably would feel more anxious going forward and GCSEs would be an issue. Hmmmmm.....
Anyway, they agreed to get OT in again to reassess and told me to take DD to GP to discuss possible dyspraxia and ADHD. I took her to GP the next day and she’s being referred for a full paediatric consultation (whatever that means). I’ve also had an EP report done which has highlighted that actually DD falls within ‘average’ but well above for reading comprehension but way below for spelling. School have agreed spelling intervention now as she is 11 years old but spelling age of a 7 year old. Mild dyslexia has been disagnosed and EP recommends extra time and laptop, I have taken her to behavioural optometrist today as EP report also indicated some possible tracking issues and optometrist has confirmed muscle weakness (almost certainly linked to hypermobility issues). Eyesight is 20/20 though. DD will need vision therapy at 70 quid a pop every fortnight for 3-12 months. I have absolutely no idea where to find the money for this. The assessment itself was £140 and the EP assessment was over £600! Added to this I sent the issue of time to take her to these appointments. I’d do anything for DD but I have to work to pay for a roof over our heads as it is and getting even more time off work is probably going to be unpaid now. But if it helps then surely it’s worth it? I might start a new thread next on vision therapy to see what people’s experience of it is. Not heard when other appointments will come through for the other stuff but it’s all happening which I guess is good. Hopefully DD will soon be in a position where she can thrive....just a shame it’s taken so long for anyone to tell us anything was wrong and then being told the way I was just got my back up. The school is still harping on about emotional stuff related to DD but to be honest I don’t see any of that a thing Home and she doesn’t mention any problems with anxiety at school so I’ll take one thing at a time and deal with the things I do know about and can try to help. Thanks again everyone and I’ll try to post again when all the investigations have been done.

thank you for the update :)

Thanks for updating us.

Do you feel that you and school are working co-operatively together? This is really important foto the best outcomes.
They sound like they have been very slow off the mark to get assessments done.....but you also sound you've had evidence if difficulties for a long period and not done anything either.....I find it a bit odd as you're a teacher. And they are talking about emotional issues, which you sound like you're dismissing. It may well be worth being a bit more open to the possibility if they have mentioned this a couple of times recently.

What was said about sitting SATs? What did they say exactly about remaining in Yr6 next year - they need special authorisation to do this and to get this lots of evidence of the need to stay in Yr6 would be needed, which sounds like it hasn't existed if they haven't assessed her - so what was said about that evidence and if they have sought permission to keep her in Yr6? Or was it more of a mooting of the possibility and idea to see what you think and them just voicing their thoughts of what might be a good idea aloud, rather than a decided and in process plan?

I must say that the communication from school sounds poor, but you also do t sound as if you've been very proactive with contact with school and the issue until very recently. Don't keep feeling furious, but determine now to work with them to get the best outcome for DD. Be asking for meetings and updates frequently and be on the schools case about it all and keep sharing the info you have gained from Ed Psych etc.

Communication may have been poor in the past and mistakes made, but there are still 8 months to go of this school year and it will be possible to get answers and a plan for the last phases of Yr6 and a plan for the following year in place if you work well with the school and LEA now. If you think it will help to have someone involved from the LEA outside of the school, then seek this now. And it sounds like you've been really busy over the last couple of weeks - that's great and important and as you say, even if difficult with work and the money, is certainly worth it.

Thanks for updating us and keep us posted. Hopefully some positives will come out of all this.

She [the Head] told us it was more for emotional reasons as she would currently not be able to cope with the transition as she needs TLC

The school is still harping on about emotional stuff related to DD but to be honest I don’t see any of that

I don't wish to be confrontational, but up until you started this thread, you'd not seen any of your daughter's other needs either.

Please stop trying to bulldoze in and think you can fix everything with a few assessments and a few interventions. yes, they will help but whatever conditions your dd has, they won't go away whilst you try to steamroller them out of existence.

She has had 6 years of struggling at school without any support, cut her some slack and read up on the effects of anxiety especially in children with dyslexia and whatever other conditions her assessments have flagged up.

DD needs a change and less namby pambying
This, above all else is really the wrong attitude to take for and with your dd. You will do her a tremendous amount of harm and cause her anxiety to rocket even more.
Lowering her anxiety level by working out what the triggers are for that is often the key to a much less-stressed child who can then be in a place to start to cope with the difficulties every day throws at them.

This is not something you can take on board and sort out yourself with no knowledge of what you are doing but a 'she should snap out of it' attitude. It takes time and it also takes TLC. She's your dd, you should be motivated to help her in an appropriate way, that means giving her what she needs as opposed to what you think is best.

Quite often, kids with this type of challenge are emotionally developed to around two thirds of their chronological age, please observe her behaviour and notice when you want to tell her she should grow up or she's too old to do something she wants to do.

Believe me, there are a huge amount of mums who knew their children were struggling at primary school yet their schools never raised any problems and refused to back the parents up if they asked for assessments because they didn't see anything.

Your dd's school are aware that she needs help, you've started well, but please be open to listening to other peoples' concerns.
You cannot 'cure' your daughter, you can't make her be exactly like everyone else, but you can provide interventions which will make her life a lot easier.
As she grows, her needs will change, please be aware of that and always be aware that when her behaviour is at its most exasperating, that's when she needs the most help, not criticism.