Anyone given up their childs place at a highly selective school at 4?

[AgonisingMum1]

We have just done this with my daughters 4+ place. The place we gave up was at a very academic, selective school. I'm hoping to hear from others who did this and were pleased with the outcome. Our reasons were mainly financial, though not entirely- we could have afforded the fees but we would have had less security in terms of savings and a lot less money month to month. We were also offered a place at a sought after state primary which is rated outstanding and has been, consistently, for years.
However, I am in turmoil about the decision. My husband was never behind the private school choice- was worried about the cost of it and didn't really agree with it on principle either. He agreed to it because we never expected to get the state school we were offered, and because he knew how much I wanted the private school. I worked for months with my daughter to get her in. We've agreed that we will sit her again at 7+ when out financial situation will be different. I know 7 plus is hard.

Please be kind. This has been an incredibly tough week and I'm hoping some of you can reassure me that we've done the right thing.

Thanks all. Abitofaproblem- you're right- we will find a school to suit her at 7 although the exam prep etc will be hard.
Lotsofsighing- I'm sure my post must sound very entitled and a lot of people won't be able to relate to what I'm saying. You're right- I should be glad we have a great state primary on our doorstep. It's hard explaining to people who haven't been down this route (4/5+, London selective schools) how much of your emotional time it takes up. Logically all the arguments were in favour of the state school- as was my husband- but my heart was with the private school because of everything I'd invested in it. I have to get behind the state option now- not least for my daughters sake- but I'm really struggling. Of course I'm not going to harp on about the private school to parents at the school gate but I hope that privately I'll be able to be happy with where she is.

Theclacks- that's v interesting. Do you mind if I PM you?

Yes, we've done it twice for two children (more times if you include 7+ and 11+). The usual central/north London superselectives.

We applied because dh still had a lingering belief that private was better, and also because we'd moved house at various points and weren't sure whether we were going to get an acceptable state place.

The closer we got to it the more I realised I really really didn't want that madness for my dc, and dh came round to my way of thinking. In the end all the dc have been at non-selective state schools all the way and have done as well as anyone regardless of school type wrt GCSE, A-level results and university entrance.

FWIW, now that we're nearly out the other side, knowing dc who have been to all different kinds of schools from rough comps to superselectives, without exception they have all got the results that you would have predicted for them if you'd had to guess when they were 9. Regardless of the type of school they went to, the kids who you'd have thought would be 11A* and Oxbridge types did go that path even if they went to schools where that was absolutely not the norm, and the kids who were a bit middling and prone to messing about got middling kinds of grades even if they went to top schools.

The only variable I would identify is that the kids who were pushed too hard, whether by parents or school or both, did not generally have good outcomes, either in terms of grades or MH.

Find a school where your child will be happy and where at least a reasonable number of kids are achieving the kinds of outcomes that you would hope for you child, and you won't go far wrong.

SW London here and there are definitely kids at DC's state school that passed up 4+ places at selectives.

Children are constantly moving between schools here and there always places at the 'non-selective' preps which seem to do just as well as the selective preps in terms of 11+ etc.

You've made your decision, so stop agonising. Your dd will not be significantly deprived of anything, she's going to a lovely school that you like. I had two dc at a lovely but not remotely sought-after state primary that we chose over we had places at a couple of private schools (one selective) because we didn't love them. I never felt they missed out on anything significant in the early years, they learned to enjoy school, which is the most important thing.

We moved them at 7+ to a school we loved and was practically on our doorstep. The exam prep wasn't that hard, just do little and often from summer of yr 1 (I started much later than that with dd1 and it was still fine).

And if you love the primary school, then stick with it until 11, save yourself a lot of money, have local friends. It's all good.

Thanks everyone- lala that's lovely of you, very reassuring. 😉

I'm going to bet my bottom dollar this is about North London super selectives and NLCS. North London seems to breed a certain kind of panic due to the lack of preps. South London seems to have quite lot more movement and options. If you love North of the Heath you either face to soul crushing commute to Hampstead with a 4 year old or you go state or super selective. There's one non selective prep North of the Heath that I can think of and that's Norfolk House which isn't particularly well regarded in terms of results or facilities.

At the 4+ mostly everyone works with their kid a bit. They go to a good nursery etc. By the time you hit the 7+ it's an industry between the pre-preps that live and die by the transfer list and the tutors. My experience has been that the 7+ competition is far more fierce. Honestly I'm sure it has happened that the same child has been offered a place twice at NLCS but I'm fairly sure it's right up there with the odd of being struck by lightening twice. I don't say that to be discouraging but I think you'll drive yourself mad focusing on gaining that particular place back. There's always Highgate and Channing both of which are lovely schools.

Yes focus on making sure she's academically up to scratch for the test but I'd focus more on the interview as that's where a lot of the state kids seem to fall down at the 7+. If she fancies it I'd go for drama type activities where she learns confidence and how to speak to adults/hold eye contact etc.

I know how blooming insane it all is but honestly you may end up with a better fit in the end. You'll have a bettter sense of her by the time she's at the ripe old age of 6.

In the nicest possible way can I tell you to stop thinking about this and to get on with you decision. I am almost certain that I know the schools you are talking about and believe me getting into them is absolutely not the be and end all of your childs education. It matters not one jot if shes doing what they are doing there, and in most cases she will be. These schools are selective because they can be and that's great but your daughter absolutely does not need to be there at 4. A good state school will give her a great start.

I would also avoid the 7+, it's horrifically brutal and there are very few girls places. Concentrate on the 11 plus with tutoring from year 4 when you know for sure that those schools will suit her. I've been through the 11 plus process and ALL the girls who were reasonably bright and tutored got into at least one of the names which everyone wants, there are enough places to go round.

We have done the pre prep and prep route but not the highly academic schools at any point and that's because it's a certain type of child who thrives in them. My kids, especially my eldest and youngest are extremely bright, they would get into pretty much anywhere especially with the right prep, I'm sure of that. However, they're not resilient, they're not the schools which would suit them and they are thriving elsewhere. I'm happy for them to give up a grade or 2 in their exams for them to get a happy well rounded education.

In N London it's very easy to think that these schools are the only places to aim for and I promise you, absolutely guarantee you that a) they're not and b) they're not right for all kids. Let you daughter enjoy her new school, don't look back and get her ready when she's 11 and you'll get the best of both worlds.

tovelitime- what you're saying makes total sense. I'm so caught up in this- and have been for so long- that I'm finding it hard to see the wood for the trees. The thought of the 7 plus so soon after the 4 plus makes me feel pretty depressed- particularly as I don't think I'd really have time to give the state school a chance. I guess the problem I'm having is that I'm crazy for giving up the 4+ place and then instantly worrying about her getting a place at 7.

Op when you say "because of everything I've invested in this" what do you mean? What have you invested?

Have to agree with Effzeh. Your child has so many advantages, they will do as well as they will do wherever they are.

I am a northerner in your neck of the woods and it's madness, I tell you, madness. It's like a virus catching hold when a child is 3+ and it never loses grip of its host.

My DC have been at a lovely state school and a non-selective independent and we've been happy at both. At 4 I would have said the oldest wasn't academic and the second was creative.

At 10, you have a much better idea about the kind of people they're going to be and what they're interested in. With a bit of help (tutor for year 5), mine got into the kind of selectives you're talking about.

Your DD will flourish because you're interested and you want to support her, not because she got into a certain school at 4.

Mine went to state primary then private selective at 11. The school they are at takes from 4+. Looking at the preppers vs state kids in their year 7 there isn't much difference. The preps have done more sport in better facilities and that shows. Posher accents. The state kids seem older, more street smart. That's about it.

When you are investing at 4 and you take those places you're playing catch up all the time and pushing more and more. Of course there are kids and parents who get into these schools, trust the school to do their job and just get on with it but when kids from these schools are popping up at Kumon and are having tutors in maths, English and science at GCSE you have to ask yourself, what is the world coming to that having the "best" education is so important that everything else falls by the wayside. Look at the levels of stress and anxiety on these school at mid secondary level, not because the schools are inducing that stress, in fact they are good at recognising it, but the stress that many of the girls are putting on themselves to be the best, the cleverest, prettiest, thinnest because they've been told that nothing else is good enough.

As I said before, there are obviously girls who absolutely thrive in that environment but before you work yourself into a frenzy that your DD isn't there, give her time to be herself and the love learning for the sake of learning and when she's 9 or 10 take a really good look at her and ask yourself, is this a school where she will not only survive, but thrive and if the answer is yes, then go for it and if the answer is no, then there are some really wonderful state and independent schools in N London which don't have the cache of the highly selective schools but do a really good job of getting the best out of their pupils.

Op you can pm if you like

I am not in London but we turned down a place at a selective private school for DD when she was 4, largely because I discovered I was pg again so unlikely to be going back to work for a while plus having 2 there would have been a struggle. What really swung it was getting a place at a very good State Primary.
DD is now in year 7 at the same school and although we are very happy with the school the difference between my DD and some of the dc who have been there since 3 is quite striking.
Although her State school was in quite a Mc area it was mixed so she is much more streetwise and aware of different people than some of her peers. A lot of the dc at her school are quite insular and while not all of them are spoilt all their friend are from similar backgrounds where as DD still keeps in touch with friends from her old Primary who are a mixed bunch
DS is still at the same State Primary and although we could afford to move him to the same school as his sister we choose not to, partly because I want him more well rounded and partly because I don't want him to experience the heavy workload or pressure until Secondary.

I personally know of children who have been asked to leave these types of school, mostly before year 4. They may be asked directly or they'll get the talk about this not being the right environment etc etc.

I think you've done the right thing. If you want to go private, pick a non selective school and decide what to do at 11. Or go state and save the money!

A friend of mine did this although as she didn't get offered the state school place until August they lost at least a terms fees and uniform costs on top.

Oh and it all worked out fine, they got her into the right school for her for secondary. (And the first highly academic one would have been too pushy.)

May I ask why you are adamant about private education?

I think you have done the right thing. Your daughter is 4 years old, let her enjoy the nursery/primary school experience. She will not remember if it was privately provided, she will remember the experiences she had there. As long as she is learning and being tought how to be a,socially responsible person the academic 'pressure' can come when shes a little older and increasingly equipped to cope with it.

Thanks everyone for your posts. I'm not adamant about private education as such, I just loved the selective schools we applied to and really believed my daughter would thrive there. I felt that, if the school didn't select her because they didn't think she was right for the school then she'd go to a local state school (rather than a non selective private) up to 11 and then we'd try again. She got into all 4 of the N London selectives we applied to so we were able to choose. I worry a bit that she won't be challenged enough at the state school and will be bored and lose her love of learning. The state school she's going to had an excellent reputation, and many current parents have said they're happy with how their child is being challenged so I'm hoping for the best.
To everyone who said that we'll know the kind of child we have better by 9 or 10- I totally agree and might be able to make a more informed choice of secondary school by then if we haven't already done so at 7.

Having seen children being asked to leave one of these schools at 4, 6, 7 and 9 as "this school isn't right for them", I would actually be feeling quite relaxed about your decision.

We pulled out of the process before my eldest even sat the assessment as it was stressing me out so much. Then that decision stressed me out. Then we didn't get a place at any of our four state choices due to a change in the school system in our area. We got allocated an outstanding school but I just didn't like it. Overly religious, no outdoor space, gloomy buildings, no real fun about the place. This had me in tears.

Then we found a prep that blew us away. Not because of the results, although they do consistently send children to grammars, top independent and boarding schools, but because the kids seemed genuinely happy there. They overflowed with enthusiasm, looked after their peers, the staff talked to them like people not just children, manners are strictly enforced and they celebrate achievement in all areas not just the academics. Several years on and she is doing exceptionally well. On track to get into highly selective schools at 11 (Habs, NLCS, St Albans) and hey - no additional tuition required. She adores school, has no issues with stress and has a pretty fab extra curricular life. Some children leave at 7 to go to these schools but on the whole they stay until 11 and move then.

I guess what I am saying is that it sometimes taking a step away from what you think is "right" makes you realise it's perhaps not as perfect as you first thought. I do believe that if your child is happy and a confident learner then they will do well. These are the foundations that a child should get in the early years which they can build on. Private is not always the best, particularly in the early years.

I would also consider moving her at 11 instead. I am not in London (just outside in Herts) but have friends stuck in the whole 4+, 7+, 11+ cycle and it takes over their lives. Assessment and tuition is just part of their everyday family life. You CAN step away from it and the world will not end. You just need to be brave!!!!!

Whatever you chose - 7+ or 11+ your daughter will be fine. It's only three years you're talking about. She won't miss out on anything in the meantime.

when your children are very young it is easy to feel like you have to give them every single advantage and that you've ruined their whole life if there is a single box you fail to tick

as they grow older and become more their own people you start to realise that an awful lot of it is not about something you were able to pay for when they were 4, but about the people they are, how resilient they are, how determined to make the most of any situation they happen to find themselves in

and that is something they really can learn from you

We are in the NW London madness. Withdrew from H/Gate progress pre interview at 3+. School spoke to us. We indicated summer born, boy, immature, long drive - too much too soon. Told us to try at 7+. State primary in Hampstead for Reception - Y2. Successful 7+. Now very happy in Y3. Possible. Lots of work at home. PM me if you have questions. It will work out!

cory - while what you say about the development of character may be true (though I think a good school and good extra curricular opportunities help a lot in the development of character), many skills are best learned young and do require teaching. That may or may not be at school, but it is not about resilience and grit.