School budgets - how would outcomes change if we went right back to basics?

[Emphasise]

Teachers cost money, good ones worth their weight in gold, most schools spend well over 80% of their budget on salaries.

But the other 20%, what really effect would it have on the children, especially in primary schools if (and these are all based on upcoming or ongoing costs in my school)

• smart boards aren't replaced - return to basic black/whiteboards
• ditto old children's Lap tops/pcs/ipads
• PE is playground games that don't need equipment or specialist coaches?
• Focus us on teaching Maths and English rather than art, science, cooking or other subjects that use materials
• They used scrap paper and pencils rather than individual whiteboards (when I started in school I couldn't believe how much was spent on whitebiard pens! 10 % of the curriculum budget in my small infant school this year)

-Remove LSAs

Anyway it's just occurred to me that in my 1970s primary school we didn't have any of these things. Was the education the children were getting so much worse?

I don't have an opinion on it, it's just a thought for discussion, as schools are going to have to change something.

Fair Funding for All Schools - a parent led group have a helpful link to the consultation and explain how it will affect your school...

www.fairfundingforallschools.org/act-now.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39343971

I remember all the hours spent on flights pre kids and catching up on work or preparing last minute presentations on the plane. Never mind, I doubt that there will be many business trips from the UK after Brexit anyway.

I wonder why they don't ban phones through, and iWatched etc.

Wrong thread!

My children's school, 4 form entry primary school (although upper years are only 3 form), across two sites two minutes walk apart, in a comfortable part of Surrey, without significant social issues or high numbers of FSM, has the following leadership team:

Executive Headteacher
Head of Schools
Deputy Head of School - Infants
Deputy Head of School - Juniors
Assistant Head Teacher
Assistant Head Teacher
Assistant Head Teacher
Assistant Head Teacher
Assistant Head Teacher
Assistant Head Teacher

So that's 10 different head/deputy roles for one school. The Assistant Head Teachers do 50% class time, all others are non classroom roles.

I know where I'd start cutting...

is it an Academy by any chance

That is bloody ridiculous MrsM43s!!

Utterly ridiculous. Not just that school, but the huge, illogical funding differences between schools.

I was at primary school in the 70s and we had a visiting music teacher and pe teacher. We went swimming, did cooking and woodwork and has sewing/craft.
We had two BBC basic computers for the school.
We also had skiing lessons at the dry slope in p7.
It certainly wasn't a "basic" education.

Don't think you did museumum, as the first BBC computer didn't launch until Dec 1981!

I definitely agree with removing most LSAs/ TAs. Expensive luxury. Do nothing more than increase the dependency of children on pandering and spoon feeding. i am a TA

There is evidence that laptops in schools actually have a negative impact on learning.

Reading Recovery programme still seems to be going strong in a number of schools (not saying it is in yours, OP). Incredibly expensive 1to1 intervention that relies on unproven Whole Language ideas; much cheaper just to teach phonics properly in the first place.

I definitely agree with removing most LSAs/ TAs. Expensive luxury.
So you would expect a teacher to cope with a mixture of 30 SEN and able and intermediate children in KS1 without support?
Even kids with EAL?
Really?

Well I went to secondary in 83 so we must have only had them in p7.

it is certainly true that using a word processor has a very negative impact on learning and development, and the use of these as a matter of course for poor writers is banned in many schools now.

However, our children are going to go out to work in a society totally dependent on ICT, so any education that will prepare children for work, will include familiarity with this.

Re individual whiteboards for infants: I've seen arguments that too much sitting on carpet and writing on whiteboard promotes bad habits regarding pen grip and letter formation. Better to sit at a table with a pencil and paper.

so any education that will prepare children for work, will include familiarity with this.

Secondary school is early enough, in my opinion.

There is evidence that laptops in schools actually have a negative impact on learning.
Link Please
I've seen arguments that too much sitting on carpet and writing on whiteboard promotes bad habits
Link please

One of the greatest failures in UK education in recent years has been meddling based on belief and opinion not evidence.
Its about time that politicians hot their grubby fingers out
and learning changes were based on evidence

Even kids with EAL?

There is in any case absolutely no provision for any support for these kids in my school anyway, in fact, as TAs, we are forbidden from using our time on them.

We are rather to spend our time cajoling and coaxing the selfish entitled little sods, who are totally ablework independently, but won't, because "its long".

There were 6 of us in one class pandering to a class of 12 perfectly capable teenagers today, all of whom were being rude, ignoring us, engaging in horseplay, and refusing to do any work.

They would be better off, and learn more, if we weren't there, and the school had an effective discipline policy, instead.

in fact, as TAs, we are forbidden from using our time on them.
In that case your school is at fault, not the TA model

They would be better off, and learn more, if we weren't there, and the school had an effective discipline policy, instead.
Please elaborate ?

There were 6 of us in one class pandering to a class of 12 perfectly capable teenagers today, all of whom were being rude, ignoring us, engaging in horseplay, and refusing to do any work.

They would be better off, and learn more, if we weren't there, and the school had an effective discipline policy, instead.

It really sounds like you are in the wrong job, user.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34174796

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/may/11/students-who-use-digital-devices-in-class-perform-worse-in-exams

Of course, it's not conclusive - little education research actually is.

In the 1970s the majority of SEN children got no support or weren't in mainstream.
We don't have a huge amount of TAs in our primary as the school can't afford them.
I don't actually think whiteboards are great as they restrict spontaneity. The School supplements them with flipcharts

Re: TAs, I think user has a point. I'm fed up in my secondary school of seeing more and more kids over the past 10 years who just can't be bothered putting the effort in and whose poor behaviour in class is blamed on attention problems and the like. Stress toys seem to be the latest fad as even ordinary NT kids can't seem to sit and concentrate - they would rather fidget, talk amongst themselves, and then claim they are getting wound up and need to use their Time Out pass. I'm not talking kids who are diagnosed as having ASD or ADHD either.

These are just ordinary kids who chooose not to behave and who see the time out passes and extra exam time given to the diagnosed ones and know exactly how to play the system. Quite often, everything is explained about their situation once you meet the parents. The parents know how to play the system too and some of them seem to see some kind of diagnosis for their child as a ticket to more benefits.

It's Awful for everyone, not least the pupils themselves, who don't seem to be able to develop a sense of responsibility for their own behaviour.

Now the SEN funding is vanishing, the LA is coming into schools instructing SENCOs to remove all but the most in need kids from the SEN register. But what happens to these kids who have been led to believe that they have attention or anger problems and have never been taught to moderate it because there have always been enough TAs in school for help them calm down or sit and do the work with them etc.

These kids are not going to go away all of a sudden. But the TAs are. God help teachers then trying to instill a sense of self-discipline in their students, while parents come flying into school complaining at a detention and that their precious little Johnny "can't help it and so we have never told him off at home".

It's just a depressing state of affairs and I don't blame teachers one bit for leaving the profession in droves.

Our school is now using the money the PTA raise to fill in gaps in the budget. We are using the money to buy books and pens rather than the nice extras we used to raise the money for, like new sports kit and toys for playtime.
It's not much, about 8k a year, but I suppose it all helps

I meant add: When I first started in that school the kids with diagnosed special needs were a delight. Trying their best, polite, etc even though they had difficulties they WANTED to try hard.

In my opinion (and I realise it is only observational based on one secondary school), behaviour has declined massively amongst the general school population and it has nothing to do with an ACTUAL increase in kids with SEN.