School says I have "No right to take my child out of school during term time"

[Easy]

Okay, first I understand that school is important, and I don't necessarily intend to take my ds on holiday during term time but .....

We have just received the bumf from school regarding ds's first term next Sept.

In amongst it is a section on absences which says "You do not have the automatic right to take children on holidays during term time. The school must agree to this beforehand"

Now I feel that the school does not have a "right" to tell me when I can have access to my own child, I find the wording somewhat heavy handed, to say the least.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle involved, I just feel that the way it's being done is wrong. Is it just me who feels the 'Nanny state' interfering here.

Oh, and I teach in you standard comp, nothing posh about the kids I teach.

Just a point, I didn't mean expensive holidays. Holidaying in England can cost just as much if not more as weather can be bad and indoor activities are very expensive. Does being on a low wage mean we are not entitled to have a nice holiday? We can afford to go in term time but simply cannot afford the prices in the holidays. Like I said before flights tend to fall midweek as well. As long as they are not missing exams and it is only once a year I think its beneficial, so there

And I do realise that the cost of the camping holiday I quoted will sadly be beyonfd the reach of some, but I was quoting that as an example, it would be cheeper to go at Whitsen (which a teacher mate of mine does), and would be cheper again in smaller campsites.

But most of the kids I teach would turn their noses up at a camping holiday.

What it comes down to is that many people value their holiday more than they value their kid's time at school. Which is fine but lets not pretend it comes down to anything else.

Of course a holiday can be rejuvinating (can also be an absolute nightmare ime- personally I wish school was all year round- would make life considerably less stressful for ds1 and therefore everyone else in the family)- but there are always choices for cheap holidays- even in holiday periods. As hmb says camping is one- pretty much the approach my parents took when I was a kid.

Holidays are important times for families to bond and spend time together as our lives are usually so busy most families just see eachother in passing during the week. It's not only the prices being hiked in holiday times but whether you can get time off work. I've not been able to book school holiday time off on numerous occassions as it so much in demand. What do you do then??

Well, although I am a teacher, and therefore get the long holidays, my dh is in the armed forces and doesn't! He is often not in the country during school holidays and when he is he has to book leave, and sometimes doesn't get it. When that happens I have taken the kids to visit family and friends in various parts of the country. The kids have had a blast. I have also 'hosted' friends in similar circumstances. When that happens we have holidays at home, gone to all the places that the tourists go when they vist our part of the world that the locals tend to ignore! Both families had a great time and kids and grown ups had fun with 'distant' friends.

It isn't easy, but it is often far more possible that some would have you believe. Teachers are very often in the same situation as everyone else! I know that I am.

Book holiday early? I'm not really getting into the whole right and wrong thing as anything that anyone else would recognise as a holiday is an impossibility for us anyway. I'd settle for time to bond and be together as a family at any time, but our life isn't like that. I'm sure my own hard luck holiday story would out hardship many on this thread- and I'm sure there are many that could compete- not much point getting into that.

All I'm saying is that in the vast majority of cases (not all there are always exceptions) that people who choose to holiday in term time do so because they place more value on their holiday than on the kids being at school. I don't see how that can be argued with.

Now personally a holiday would be far far easier fo us during term time as its so much less crowded. And crowds make doing anything with ds1 an impossibility. I haven't taken him out of school because I value his time there. Not for the usual reasons of education as atually a lot of the education that is more relevant to him is to do with being in the real world, but for more selfish reasons- because otherwise I would have 6 weeks to fill with absolutely nothing for him to do. At least by taking holiday in school holidays I get dh to help out for 2 weeks (since social services seem to have disappeared into the ether and seem intent to not actually offer any help this summer) and he has less time to get bored out of his skull and move onto self injurous behaviour.

From my pov I don't really care whether people holiday in term time or holiday time- it doesn't affect me at all. I just wish people would be more upfront about their reasons for doing and not try to justify it. No-one woulkd accept a teacher holidaying in term time because it was cheaper, or because their partner couldn't get time off work during school holidays- that would be classed as a poor excuse. So if you are going to do it, then fine, but don't justify it to yourself under false pretences!

ahh hmb is a good example for my last paragraph Can I borrow you please?

Question for the teachers..... When people take their kids out during school time do you get annoyed because
a) you are expected to help them catch up
b) they will be missing work and therefore screwing up exams
c)it shows they don't value school?

Just curious really- as its noticeable on these threads that is does piss the teachers off- and just wondered why......

All of the above.

a. Parents often think that they are 'absolved' if they ask for work. This generates work for me, which mildly irritates. What irritates even more is that I know the work will not be done in the majority of cases. The kids make no effort to copy up missed work and then often disrupt later lessons expecting 1 on 1 tuition so that they can catch up. They will often find later lessons fairly incomprehensible since we (as teachers) are encouraged to 'build' our lessons. In short, the work set is unlikley to fully make up for the work missed, even if it gets done, which in the majority of cases it will not.

b. This pisses me off bigtime! Not for the schools results (can't care less tbh) but for the kids! Missing two weeks can be a grade dropped and that can mean the difference between going on the course they want or failing to do so.

c. This is also a biggie. The kids are given the message that the holiday is more important that school. This was very mich the case of the kid I quoted earlier on in the topic. She switched off from school after the first time her parents took her out in term time. She went from a 5 A* -C kid to a very disrruptive, lucky to get a C kid. And I have seen this over and over again.

I read a report yesterday about Glastonbury and how many children are there this year. Most of these children are missing school, but the parents interviewed seemed to think that attending the festival was more important than education.

My reasons were not excuses but reality. Life is far too short and good lasting memories are made on holiday. I intend to take my children on a family holiday once a year and if the only time I can take them is in term time then so be it. I shall say no more on the subject

I predicted those may be your answers for a and b hmb, but answer for c is interesting.

I don't now about glstonbury- I reckon it could be educational- and certainly creative- lots of workshops etc there as well. And I suppose only 2 days would be missed.

Now can someone tell me where we can find an affordable 6 berth campervan so we can actually have holidays please. Have decided that's the only way it can work for us, but don't have a spare 33 grand!

We used to take our children out of school every year for 1 week, when they were at primary. This was before SATS came along & we always went in May. This was because we used to go to Butlins & we just couldn't afford to go during the school holidays. (& it makes a huge difference to the price.)

Once they went to secondary we started going to caravan parks during the Easter holidays instead, because again, the prices double in the summer. We had some nice holidays in the cold & wet.. We only ever have 1 week, never 2 weeks like a lot of others, simply because we both work & we can't get the time off. DH is NOT allowed time off in a week with a bank holiday in it (so 2 weeks of Easter are out, & the May half term). I used to work in a call centre where I was 195th on the leave list & wasn't allowed time off in the summer. These people who say it's always possible should count themselves very lucky.

Then last year we decided we would like to take the family to Florida as a one-off first & last big "family holiday" before DD left home. We decided on February half term & tried to book in plenty of time. Most of the tour operators had no plane seats & those that did were charging over-inflated prices. We had to go half way through half term & miss the first week back. We got permission from all 4 schools, having explained the circumstances & that we'd timed it to miss any exam periods. DS1 was in Y10 & notes from school had said that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES would permission be given for absence for Y10 & Y11 (note came home after we'd booked). Because my children have had no other absences at all- as they are rarely ill- all 4 schools agreed.

It was a one-off & we won't take them out again. I have no time for the family described earlier who take 2-3 week breaks in exam time every year, but a one-off in non-exam time does not hurt the child's education & can do wonders for the family.

In all the shouting about this, does no-one consider that parents who both work full time might be in more need of a holiday away than the children?

Tallulah I don't think you sound like someone who takes the piss though- and I doubt that any teacher would have any particular problems with your holiday history. Agree with your comments about Easter as well. Don't agree with the bit about parents working full time needing a break particularly though. I think often the people who really really need a holiday are the ones completely unable to take one - for whatever reason, and there will be many different reasons. Also teachers plus spouses are often both working full time- so that rule should apply to them as well.

One student of mine had a holiday to the States (which she didn't want to go on) one week before her physics A level. Caught chickenpox, was stranded in the States until the spots cleared up and missed her first paper! Slightly off topic though!

I don't think that anyone has been shouting??? I hope not, I've just enjoyed a good discussion.

Jimjams, would a tent be too difficult? There are some great bargins up for grabs on E-bay......I'm itching to buy one.

And just think, as a teacher who spends all her working time with other people's kids, I can only go on holiday when places will be full of other people's kids

Tallulah, as I've said I have never know the school I work in refuse as sensible request. You wouldn't have had a problem as far as I can see.

I've pondered a tent. The problems are

a) ds1 can get funny about public toilets. if he decides he doesn't like some he won't will not absolutely will not go in them- and then that fear can then extend into not going anywhere iyswim.
b)worried about him escaping before we're awake in the morning. I think I would be too scared to sleep in case he set off in the morning and of course can't lock a tent.
c) back to the problem we had in the static- if he's stressed he sits in the car. On holidays he's stressed so he sits in the car all the time. That caused no end of problems in our static holiday- as then all the other kids around wanted to sit in their cars and we were getting the evils from their parents (or odd looks). That's why I hit on the idea of the campervan originally and why it worked so well. He did get stressed - but he just sat by the steering wheel- it didn't matter and he was still part of the family group.

Re point 1. what about a porta loo and a loo tent, you can get them for a few quid on E-bay.

Re point 2 I have been looking at some sleep six tents. One child in each of the 'bedrooms and dh and I in the living area when we sleep. Would that work, as he would have to climb over you to exit the tent, not that different from the campervan? And you could set it up in the garden and 'work' at it??

RE 3, Sod what everyone else thinks, but see what you mean about him being more part of the family.

yes to points 1 and 2- although not keen on sleeping in the living area! (chilly brrr). But the car thing was a real real problem. He just glued himself to it and even getting him in to eat was difficult. Plus the fact much as I do think sod what everyone else thinks, in campsites neighbours change all the time and so it's an almost continual lot of stares - which I can handle and tuts which I don't really. The car just made the whole holiday in France stressful, and when he wasn't in our car he was sniffing other people. At least in the campervan areas he was just climbing into other campervans which strangely enough people seem to find more acceptable than him sniffing their mondeo!

The other advantage of the campervan is that it can be used all year round and will make trips to the in-laws more manageable (don't need to use motorway services and somewhere to stay if he refuses to go in their houses- and perhaps prefeable to him being told off all the time).

However as I have just admitted on SN I am very negative at the moment. Although just remembered last time we went camping he woke up at 2am and screamed the place down as it was dark, which woke up all the donkeys in the neighbouring fields who then started eee awwing. I thought it was funny- but did get some dirty looks the next morning. cmapervans have nightlights

Jimjams, have a look on e-bay for campervans! There are some that would sleep 4/5 for a lot less than you quoted.

Re the sniffing. ds now demands a sniff, and a hug, and a tellytubies hug, and a lionking hug and a mummy hug and a kiss! We all take it a read, but everyone else thinks he is bonkers!

We need a 6 berth as can't put ds1 and ds2 together. Campervans hold their value amazingly well- so somehting that's say 5 years old will be 5 grand cheaper say. it goes without saying that we need something reliable- so we're looking at over 20.

Tryimg to work from home so I bring in enough money to take out a loan on one (ghosty of you're reading this- that's definitely top of the list!)....maybe next year.

Jimjams there was a piece in the BBC travel section about motorhome holidays here
The company renting them out is Vivanti & they do ex-rental sales too. Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I haven't read through the whole thread