School says I have "No right to take my child out of school during term time"

[Easy]

Okay, first I understand that school is important, and I don't necessarily intend to take my ds on holiday during term time but .....

We have just received the bumf from school regarding ds's first term next Sept.

In amongst it is a section on absences which says "You do not have the automatic right to take children on holidays during term time. The school must agree to this beforehand"

Now I feel that the school does not have a "right" to tell me when I can have access to my own child, I find the wording somewhat heavy handed, to say the least.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle involved, I just feel that the way it's being done is wrong. Is it just me who feels the 'Nanny state' interfering here.

How would you have worded the holiday bit then? (or have you already said this somewhere...?)

The fact remains that you don't have an automatic right to take your child out of school for a holiday. You can, of course, but it will be an unauthorised absence.

Toothache, sympathies. I'm starting to wish I hadn't started this. I just wanted an adult discussion about my rights as a parent (about which I do feel quite passionate).

If it's any consolation Coddy really upset me at the beginning of this thread.

Kids miss a vast amount of work if they are removed from school during term time.

I have, on average, 14 lessons to teach a module of work, 7 weeks of work. Of these I will need a week to help them with revision and preparation for external exams, so now we are down to 12 lessons, six weeks of work. If a child misses two of these they will have missed 1/3 of a module. There are 12 modules that they sit for double science GCSE. While they are missing my lessons they will also miss 1/3 of a module in Physics or chemistry, so they will have missed 2/3 of a module , almost 1/12 of their GCSE. Do that each year and they have missed getting on for 1/6th.

And I simply don't have the time to get these kids to catch up during lessons, and to be honest with you, why should the kids who do attend not get my time because someone has just got back off a holiday? Nine times out of ten kids make no effort to catch up. I can, and do, set extra work for them, I even make myself available during lunch time but most times kids don't bother. I'm begining to wonder whether I should be worried about these kids' education when neither they not their parents seem to care as much as I do.

Coddy has always been fairly vociferous in her feelings about term time holidays though. I also think the use of "inset days" and the example of your DSs nursery teacher swanning off for a week sounded like you thought inset days were a skive IYSWIM. I don't think it was personal!

hmb

As I said at the beginning, I do agree with the principle of children not going on holiday during term time (esp by secondary school). My initial comment was aimed at the statement about my "rights"

Just reading mine - it says:

"No parent can demand the right for their child to have leave of absence for the purposes of a holiday of any length. This means that if you want to take a short break away in term time - even for just two or three days - you must receive approval beforehand from the school".

Also says:

"The school is responsible for authorising absence and will therefore check attendance regularly.

Unauthorised absence for which the school does not give approval will be followed up by the school and will be referred to the Education Welfare Service. Frequent AUTHORISED absences may also be referred.

(This bit is in CAPS)..

The Education Welfare Service has a responsibility to enforce school attendance and will take Court Action where necessary."

Reading the back of the leaflet, it's got the School details, but also add the Contact Details for the local Education Office - so I assume that it's "standard info" given across the board.

Easy, I honestly think that you have the 'right' as a parent to do what you like with your child (within the law natch) and with that right is the responsibility to deal with the consequences. If you unhappy with the school dictating attendence home ed.

I do think there is a huge difference between taking time off at infant level and secondary.

I actually think the school has certain rights when you send your child there too!!

If a parent feels they really do want to holiday in school time what is the best way to approach the school. Do you just say weve booked it and we are going or do you ask permission and hope they say yes. Im feeling terrible now at the thought of taking ds out of his reception class for a 10 day holiday next year. Im scared he would loose his place, rightly so I guess. Not every parent who takes their kids out of school does it for selfish reasons. Our ds has problems with socialisation, lots posted about him and possible dyspraxia. The holiday last week gave him a good chance to socialise. He even got up on stage and helped the clown with his magic and actually spoke, it was a first for us and made me cry. I know this could happen on any holiday at any time, but because he was with a friend he had extra confidence. Im trying to justify myself now, sorry.

I've never know the school to refuse a reasonable request pepsi. They probably have a form to fill in, ours does. Keep it noce and amicable and I'm sure that you will have no problems.

pepsi, along with your request, why not ask if they can recommend a book for him to take with him, or a list of spellings to learn, or offer to help him with a diary of his holiday, to show them that you are not ignoring his education?

Pepsi,

If you are taking your child away, knowing that during that time he will learn things, social skills, geography, reading, numbers, because you are going to make that effort with him, then I think that's fine.He'll get 1 to 1 attention thru his holiday.

If you were going to stick him on a beach while you drank beer all day, that's a different matter I think.

I've probably just upset some more people now.

But Easy, isn't that the point? Should the school send out literature saying "if you're going to take your child on a nice educational holiday, that's fine, but if you're going to feed them chips for two weeks in Benidorm, that's not"? Isn't it easier to say "no automatic rights, fill in this form and we'll assess each case on its merits"?

I think the problem here is the confrontational tone of it, rather than what it's saying. If schools want a partnership relationship with parents, then they shouldn't use a hectoring tone with them - and the same for parents with schools. I think the problem is that too often, schools do address their comments to the lunatics who go round attacking teachers, and when somebody addresses me as if I am one of those people, it immediately gets my back up. Nobody likes to have it implied that they are low-life, it's bound to lead to resentment.

How about if you sit them on a beach and let them drink beer all day? It's kind of educational!!

MeanBean, You are soooooo eloquent. That is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say all morning.

Thankyou

Having talked to some primary teachers the offering to do a diary can either be a very good thing or a bad one. It has, it think, to be work that you do with the child, rather than expecting the teacher to set up extra work for your dd/ds. ( after al you are making the choice to withdraw your child) A lot of teachers can end up with even more work to do, marking work produced by children that has nothing to do with the topics the rest of the class are studying.

On the other hand if you are prepared to do the work with your ds then I think that would been seen in a very positive light.

Fair enough, meanbean and it cuts both ways. If a parent fills in the form and makes the request I have never know there to be a probelm. If they charge into school f-ing and blinding about their 'rights' (while being silent on their responsibilities) I think that it is understandable when the school (comprised, after all, by humans) is less co-operative.

I'm sorry, I'm missing the point here. Isn't it against the law to take your kids out of school? What's wrong with stating that factually?

Beetroot,

Can ds and I come?

Please.

Stickynote - If it's against the law then parents can be prosecuted??

Good tip for anyone wanting a cheaper holiday in English school holidays is to book gites etc in France for the last fortnight in August. Because La Rentree happens bang on September 1st most French families don't start holidays after mid-August and the gite prices for that period are not "peak".
I've come to the conclusion that English holiday providers are cashing in on school holiday dates way in excess of what goes on over the channel. So this year will be our last holiday on English soil...
On the main issue under discussion I strongly feel you enter a moral as well as a legal contract to support the staff of the school in educating your child, so don't feel I'd ever take them out of school in term time for holidays. As others have said, maybe these letters have to be worded so strongly as to try and get the message across to parents who don't ask permission and don't see why they should, such as hmb's example.