Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

School says I have "No right to take my child out of school during term time"

197 replies

Easy · 24/06/2004 11:42

Okay, first I understand that school is important, and I don't necessarily intend to take my ds on holiday during term time but .....

We have just received the bumf from school regarding ds's first term next Sept.

In amongst it is a section on absences which says "You do not have the automatic right to take children on holidays during term time. The school must agree to this beforehand"

Now I feel that the school does not have a "right" to tell me when I can have access to my own child, I find the wording somewhat heavy handed, to say the least.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle involved, I just feel that the way it's being done is wrong. Is it just me who feels the 'Nanny state' interfering here.

OP posts:
poppyseed · 24/06/2004 12:16

Most schools allocate their INSET days imo sensibly at the start and the end of holidays. Let's not forget the value of these INSET days either. They are there for the professional progression of staff and to make them more effective teachers of our children. If your school has odd days here and there then why not approach the governing body?

littlemissbossy · 24/06/2004 12:17

I agree with LIZS on this, although it may appear a bit heavy-handed, it's probably due to all the parents who have taken their children out many times!

Twinkie · 24/06/2004 12:19

But don;t we as parents when we enrole our kids into school give an undertaking that they will school our children for a certain amount of days each year??

As for having the final say - yes as a parent we do but we have to take into account the school, teachers and other pupils and how they will be effected if we decide that we must go on holiday during term time.

Both DP and I have decided that we will never take DD out of school for any reason whatsoever if she is meant to be there (other than sickness or emergencies) for her benefit rather than anything else.

frogs · 24/06/2004 12:21

Easy, of course you can make that decision without reference to the school, but it might be worth remembering that for unauthorised absences over 10 days, the school have no obligation to keep the place open for your child.

SoupDragon · 24/06/2004 12:21

Our inset days are tacked onto the holiday periods too.

As I see it, if you commit to sending your child to a school, you need to abide by their rules. Inset days and term time holiday rules have been around for over 25 years. Even at work, you don't have an automatic right to take a holiday whenever you wish. Usually its not a problem but you still need the "permission" of your boss.

poppyseed · 24/06/2004 12:26

Has everyone signed a home-school agreement? Aren't we supposed to be supportive to the school and the job that they're trying to do? As far as I can remember (OK teacher until 5 years ago when DD & DS arrived) schools have 5 INSET days that they can allocate on top of school holidays. I worked in a GM school so we could choose what day they were on. Don't know if this still applies to LEA schools....

Original poster
Easy · 24/06/2004 12:27

Soupy, most of us are being paid to provide labour at work, of course we need permission to take holiday. The school relationship is somewhat different.

OP posts:
Original poster
Easy · 24/06/2004 12:31

Poppyseed, I agree that we should support the school in it's efforts. BUT I think school should also support parents, and I just found the original statement regarding my 'rights' somewhat undermining.

I recognise my responsibilities to provide my child with an education. Maybe I would have preferred the document to point out my responsibilities, rather than bang on about what 'rights' I don't have apparently.

OP posts:
poppyseed · 24/06/2004 12:35

Sorry-I don't think that it's heavy handed, just probably directed more to the parent who takes their children out of school without a care in the world around exam time, module tests etc etc etc. It's a shame that it has to be worded like though I agree.

Twinkie · 24/06/2004 12:40

Easy do you read all the stuff they send home and bother so much about howe it is worded as you have this??

pepsi · 24/06/2004 12:42

My Ds starts reception in January. We have just got back from our hols in Cornwall, went with friends and had a fab time, so much so that we decided to book up there and then for next year during the summer hols. We were amazed that it was full until summer hols 2007. The children had such a good time, it was a holiday for the children and not the parents....we were exhausted, everything was centred around them and they learnt loads. We have booked up to go during school time next year but will keep phoning to see if there are cancellations. I shall tell the school in September when he starts and hope for a good response. I never thought i would take a child of mine out of school for a holiday. Its not like we are going earlier to save money. I imagine it depends a lot on the age of the child. For the under 7's I dont think it will make a difference at all, but for the older child I would definately think again. Its a touchy subject though, both myself and my friend feel uncomfortable about it already.

hmb · 24/06/2004 12:43

I'd like to tell you all a story...

I taught a girl this year. She was an able child, more than capable of getting 5 a-c at GCSE. She was doing fine in school in Y9 and parents took her out for 3 weeks during term time. Girl returned unwilling to work, and who can blame her, she had just had a three week holiday in term time. She was taken out of school in Y10 and missed modular exams. Her work and attitude plummeted, her predicted grade in my subject was an F by Y11. We did a module and by forcing her to work in class she got a C. He behaviour improved, and her attitde, she began to answer questions in class. I began to feel that she could get a C and told her so. She was pleased and continued to improve. Her parents then took her for a two week holiday in the run up to the next modular exam, which she got a D in. She switched off, and became a total pain in the arse, she wrecked her education and that of the rest of the kids in the class.

So where should she have been in those two weeks? Did her parents know best and work in her best interests? The rules are there to help to protect kids like her. And I have never known the school refuse a reasonable request. But remember they don't have to educate you child. You have the absolute right to do what you want with your kids but the school don't have to fit in with your plans, you can always home ed.

Tortington · 24/06/2004 12:44

easy..what can you do to change how the parents of future children to that school see that literature. are you going to talk to the school about it? write to the PTA or governing body LEA or newspapers even? i dont see a problem with it being phrased differently with an explaination of things mnetters have described such as if you sign a form this means the school doesnt look crap on the legue tables - the reason you sent you child here, or we have no obligation to keep a place for unautherised absebtee children absebt for over 10 days.

i just got permission to take my 3 kids out of school for holidays. holidays which we had booked months ago- the permission is a chimera- my kids were going on holiday whethr they gave permission or not

hmb · 24/06/2004 12:45

Our INSET days are always at the start or very end of the holidays BTW.

And I'm off sick at the moment as I have no voice.....not pulling a sicky!

poppyseed · 24/06/2004 12:45

Got thousands of similar stories hmb. It's so annoying....

Toothache · 24/06/2004 12:47

That's how it coudl be read though Twinkie... that the ONLY point I was trying to make. Jeeeeeez.... sometimes you can come across as really jumping down my throat. Perhaps I'm a bit over-sensitive just now, but it's starting to get to me.

Sorry Easy.... that was off topic. I understand what you mean though.

frogs · 24/06/2004 12:47

Twinkie!

Slinky · 24/06/2004 12:51

My school documents have it worded exactly as you have quoted. Although I've never taken holiday during term-time, I have taken DD1/DS1 out on a Friday (think we were travelling for a weekend away).

My friend takes her kids out at EVERY opportunity - they have 2 weeks away in September every year, followed by days off for their birthdays, plus they've had 2 days off this week for something or other. The mother then moans that the teachers give her kids extra homework to "catch up". WELL GOOD - why should mine and every one elses kids have to repeat the lesson so hers can catch up.

I think it's aimed at people like her to be honest. As DD2 is starting in September, I've got all the info pack again this morning - just checked the "10 days allowed" thing. Our Headteacher allows 10 school days off as "authorised" after that it becomes "unauthorised" (which my friends days off are). It states that the Headteacher CAN and WILL refer parents who insist on taking "unauthorised leave" over to the EWOs for them to follow up.

SoupDragon · 24/06/2004 12:52

But Toothache, it specifically talked about term time holidays, it didn't mention any other sort of access. Take calming deep breaths... oh no don't - you sit near the toilet don't you

Slinky · 24/06/2004 12:53

Forgot to add.....

all INSET days are added on to beginning/end of holidays plus...

the school has a ban on ALL holiday (for every Year group) taken during the month of May - due to SATS for Years 2 and 6.

Original poster
Easy · 24/06/2004 12:54

Twinkie

I try to read everything school sends to me. Sometime I do become incensed by the way documents are worded, either because they are misleading, or simply in poor English.

I was particularly appalled a few weeks ago by a letter sent out by the headteacher, regarding adult literacy and numeracy courses. The standard of English used was dreadful, and I had to read the letter 2 or 3 times to fully understand it.

I feel that this particular text gives a very poor impression of the school, or education authority's view of us as parents.

OP posts:
Toothache · 24/06/2004 12:55

Soupy.
Oh I understand what it means, but I can just appreciate why it's got Easy's back up a bit the way they've worded it.
My Parents take my brothers out of school every year for a fortnight so they can have a cheaper holiday abroad. It drives me mental and has been the ignitor for many a big argument between my Mum and I. She is being clearly irresponsible. Not this year though..... they got "the letter" too.

Twinkie · 24/06/2004 12:55

Sorry if you feel that way Toothache - I really am not - I just understand what the piece of literature from the school is saying and don't think it is such a big deal.

Twinkie · 24/06/2004 12:56

Does anyone know if it is not the school who chooses to word iot that way but some sort of government department who have been advised by lawyers and stuff??

Thomcat · 24/06/2004 12:57

What angers me more is that holiday companies put up prices by 80 - 90 % because they know that parents can't / shouldn't take kids out of school in term time.

My friend went ahead and took her son away in term time and he lost his place at the school. She fought and begged and screamed and the head did eventually back down but she'll never take them away in term time again.