What would you do in this situation?

[lucas1612]

Dh and I are going round in circles and I feel like we won't make the decision and the deadline is looming. Don't feel like there's many people I can talk to in RL without being judged. So looking for outside perspective I guess.

Ds who is 4 has been accepted into a private school after an informal assessment day. Df has offered to pay his fees. I have made a pro/cons list:

Pros

• think he's bright (as far as you can tell when 4) so we should run with this and provide best learning environment we can which would challenge him and tap into his ability .
• smaller class sizes, 1:4 care from TA/teacher
• more opportunities with sports, arts, languages, enrichment etc.
• others in class bright so generally push achievements up.
• ds very determined and strong willed, could be influenced very easily and fall into 'wrong crowd' at state school.
• amazing results
• secondary school sorted, no need to move house to get good school (if we needed to do that anyway)
• if bright could get bored at state school and loose thirst for learning.
• it's an amazing opportunity.
• will get into after school club straight away.
• might not get in later on if start at state.
• excellent inspection report, state only good.

Cons

• will it push him too much?
• he might not be academic, does it suit his personality?
• didn't love it when we looked around but loved the state school and confident would def be happy there.
• not as much sense of community, catchment big and potentially no play dates after school.
• will we/him fit in? Probably 'poorest' there.
• don't want him to grow up in middle class bubble with no variety of people and lifestyles.
• distance from home. Can't walk there like state school. Stressful pick up/drop off
• hols overlap with work hols
• didn't love it when looked around, not community feel state school had.
• possible extra costs involved?

On previous threads people have said they know which school dc would fit into or like best. We re not sure ds would love private or not but we think he d love the local state school.

Based on this, what decision would you make?

Putting him in later on is something we ve discussed but as I said I am worried he might not get in. I suppose it's like playing it safe putting him in for reception and we know he's in. It's true he might not be bright enough to get in when up against others in a more formal testing situation in yr3 or yr6

Plus, I am not sure about him doing a pass/fAil assessment when he gets older. I guess getting in on the informal assessment sounds better to me. I failed assessments to private school and it did nothing for my confidence. I don't want that for my ds.

I don't see it as being as simple as oh I can move him for secondary. It's a highly competitive school which doesn't just take pupils because their parents have the money. It selects them on ability. If we didn't get in and went to a struggling secondary we would always kick ourselves and wonder if he didn't pass because he was in state school.

I am in education myself and hate what the government are doing to our state schools. I hate the new curriculum and lack of creativity. It's all so stale and based on grammar and writing. I am scared of the cuts and larger class sizes. It's going in a way I hate. I don't want ds learning for testing and being tested all the time. In some ways I feel private school would be better to avoid this.

Hopping green- totally take your point. I grew up in a very sheltered environment and went to private school from 9. I wasn't streetwise and was very innocent. I think I thought everyone had the same kind of life as us until I reached sixth form. It's definitely a consideration.

That's one thing we liked about the local school- It's very mixed. This seemed to put others off, but we liked the fact it was mixed and not in the upper/middle class bubble. It is a concern BUT I guess if would be turn up to us to ensure he had a wide range of experiences so that he experienced diversity outside of school. Although our area is affluent it's right on the border of a more deprived area and none of our friends are doing the private route so dcs would have other experiences.

A very close relative initially paid a tiny percentage of DC's fees, up to Y3 in prep. During that time we made various decisions about her education (of course, as we all do), and I always felt that I should include my relative's point of view, because of their contribution to the fees. They never asked me to take their views into account, and I stress that I have a very good relationship with them - however I never felt that I could make any decisions unilaterally.

I am sure that you have a great relationship with your DF - however might there be a chance that you would feel beholden to him because of his financial help? I had, and still have, the best relationship with the kind family member that helped us out in a very limited capacity - but would you feel somehow in your DF's debt?

I would also counter the worry that you have that you could be the "poorest" in a private school. IME of 2 private prep schools, one academic, one not - there were families there of wildly varying incomes - the fabulously wealthy down to the one aged car/no holidays/3rd hand uniform families - and everyone in between. If the school choses its pupils from an academic assessment (as much as they can do at such a tender age), rather than those who can simply afford a place, you might find that you fit in very well.

Whatever you choose, don't forget that you can change - nothing is set in stone. Very good luck with your decision.

Out of curiosity is this a Scottish private school?

No, it's in England.

Silly- no I wouldn't feel obliged. Df and dm have made it clear the money is for dcs education and can be used for schooling now or university. They wouldn't interfere. Df said it's our decision so I am not feeling the pressure.

Found out dsis ds2 got in today and would go same time as ds if we chose the school. That is a big plus for me. I just don't know what to do.

We did have a lovely feeling about the local state school. It felt like a community, warm, friendly and neutering. The head seemed so enthusiastic and I loved the feel of it.

We felt the private school was formal and big with lots of little separate buildings over a busy road. They had to walk to various places throughout the day and had lunch in a very formal extremely old hall With lots of tradition. BUT the head knows all the children's names and surely a school with x2 classes with 18 in a class would offer more of a family feel and neutering environment because it's smaller? All the children were happy, polite and well behaved. The teachers friendly. I guess the state school felt more 'real' and I had total confidence in the head and really felt she was real rather than putting on a show to impress.

I can only give my own personal opinion here which is I would choose private education.... I'm very for private sector.
Sorry that isn't much help!

It sounds stifling and hot-housey to me given your description. Not much room for creativity, art, drama, music etc in a hot house...

I assume you meant nurturing rather than neutering!

Could you perhaps name the prep school that way any current parents could allay any fears you have on here? My concern would be whats the pastoral care like/creative side and also if they have that many applicants for such a small amount of places , i dont necessarily think you would get in again ahould they cap their class sizes etc.

Haha yes I mean nurturing! Sorry.

Yes, because it's so competitive I feel he might not get in later on so it's not a matter of moving him in yr3/yr6. They have a cap on class sizes but obviously they get bigger as they get older.

You could argue there is room for more creativity because they don't have to follow the state curriculum which IMO is squeezing every ounce of creativity and fun out of learning. They have unbelievable facilities for the arts, cooking, sports etc which the state school could not match. If anything he might be a more diverse and creative experience. I just don't want him in a highly competitive, academic, formal environment which turns him off learning.

I ve just had a look at secondary schools. Our area is known historically for very under performing secondary schools but they are improving. However, our local secondary catchment school only has 50% achieving the standard A-C grades! Scary! Plus, we don't know if we ll have the money to move house for a decent secondary when the time comes and we love where we are so don't actually want to live house. Again, putting ds in now gives us security and means we won't potentially have to stretch ourselves moving to get him into a decent school if we doesn't pass the exams at yr6 level.

Are all children guaranteed to carry on into the secondary. I know a lot of schools with that set up advise on 'alternative' paths for children that they feel are not making the grade come Y7.

It sounds as though you really don't feel sure that the school felt right for you or your DS. Have you looked round any other private schools for comparison? Just because you pay it does not necessarily better, or better for your child.

Seeline- no there is no guarantee but unless they are really struggling he would automatically stay on until he leaves school.'

We are meant to be going to see another private school with ds in a week. We were wondering whether to cancel or not but I think we should go as a comparison. It's not as good as the one he's been offered a place in in terms of results and reputation but it's as academic. They don't have such a rigorous selection procedure at reception age. It is a bit of a running joke in the city that all the children who don't get into the first private school go to this one!

I am in two minds. It might be a better fit if not as academic and formal and a nicer atmosphere BUT if results aren't that good and it lets people in more if they have the money to go rather than on ability then what are you paying the fees for?

Yes I was also going to ask if you'd looked around other independent schools to get a comparison.

They differ quite a lot - my DC's first prep school was truly dreadful but their current ones are phenomenal.

Also, don't be overly impressed by the 'Times top 10 prep' label. The Times' bases its rankings on SATS performance and only about 1/3 of preps actually put the kids through them. The schools that are included in my neck of the woods are not the ones with the best results or reputations.

There's a lot to be said for avoiding the 7+ if you can. It's stressful and, looking at my kids' schools, the standard expected at that point is higher. Schools can judge kids far more accurately at 7 so falling within the range of their current pupils isn't enough - they are looking for the ones who'll be top of the class. So if you think you might go private eventually anyway, and as the fees aren't an issue, I think your life will simpler if you do it from the start.

"BUT the head knows all the children's names and surely a school with x2 classes with 18 in a class would offer more of a family feel and neutering environment because it's smaller?"

Our school has more than ten times as many children as that and the Head still knows the name of every single child. When you walk through the doors it feels very much like one big family. The size means that they are set up for a greater variety of children with a whole range of needs.

The private school sounds like a far greater gamble from what you describe. I'm not sure the extra facilities are enough to cancel out the potential stresses of the greater distance, overlapping holidays, and the feeling of possibly being the odd ones out in that environment.

Is this the only private school option?

No, there is another option. We are seeing it next week. The school he's been offered is in many ways the one to go to of the mixed private schools in the area. Excluding the many single sex ones.

The distance isn't terrible. 20 mins drive but heavy traffic as opposed to a 5/10 min walk.

That's exactly what I want, a family feel. I totally felt that With the state school. But perhaps the smaller classes mean the private is like that we just didn't get the impression it was. Dh and I saw it straight after the state school and because he loved it so much I wonder if our view of the private one was altogether constructive. Dh in particular was quite against private schools in general so also went in with a negative mind set

How do you feel about the headteacher and the class teacher in reception and y1? I nomally got a feel when I was showed around. I think having a kind teacher is very important in earlier years.

There are problems with all through schools. The children can feel very stuck in one place by the time they get to 16. They have had the same diet for years. Also very small classes are not good. Too few opportunities for friends and meaningful sport. My younger DD went to a prep with 18 -20 in the classes - 3 per year group. It was very strong in sport, music and drama, as well as top academics. The little prep she went to for nursery and YR was dire further up the school although the early years was brilliant. Sport, music, drama, clubs etc were poor and parents tended to use it for wrap around care. Very few ever passed the 11 plus. Lots of parents used it to make friends "like them" and the social side of it. The family feel is truly overrated. All schools should give you a good feel in Early years. All Head teachers know children, even in schools of 500 children. Why is a "family feel" important when a child is 10? I tend to prefer my children becomming independent and family feel is not what I want when they are older. Sounds like mollycoddling to me.

My state educated older child sailed into a private school at age 11. Depending where you are, they are not all really difficult entrance exams. The state education my Dd had was good, but could have been better. However at the private school she was actually ahead of many - except in French. She was the only one not to come from a prep school. We decided to spend the money on senior school because the ethos was suitable for her whereas our local grammar was very good, but just not able to give her the same opportunities as the independent.

I would also choose a prep based on what you want for secondary. Is this senior school really what you want? Or could you do better? Is it just the convenience you want? Around here, some cram for grammar schools but a couple send children to top boarding schools. What are the destinations of any they lose any at 13? Or do they not bother with destinations because their world is cosy?

The head seems very dedicated and enjoys his job. I wouldn't describe him as enthusiastic. Didn't get to speak to the reception and year1 teachers really as they were teaching and we were shown round by year 6 pupils. So again probably why we felt we didn't get a great perspective of the school. I personally prefer being shown round by the head and then opportunities to speak to the pupils.

We did speak to one year 2 teacher who was ks1 leader. He seemed very nice and capable. Again, not that enthusiastic. We did have a speech from the head and he talked about the merits of the school which we took on board. He seemed very dedicated and experienced but again none of them seemed to have the passion we got from the staff at the state school.

Whereas the state school we got shown around by the head so got a very good sense of her. We had a long chat with the reception teacher so also got a good sense of her too.

However, I guess a state school needs to work harder to reel you in than a private school and they certainly did try very hard to impress at the state school

It is usually the other way round. We have been wooed by all sorts of visits, chats and open mornings at independent schools! Nothing was too much trouble. They need your cash. I am surprised this one was so laid back. Are they operating a waiting list?

Selective private schools often "weed out" DC, but would obviously not admit this to prospective customers!

Is it really that selective at intakes at 7+ onwards? Eg London and surrounding home counties?

You want a cosy non-pressured environment yet you admit one of the things that makes you want to pick the private is the selectivity of it at 7 and 11+... I'm not sure the two are entirely compatible tbh.

Ask how many of their reception intakes remain at the school at 13+.

Yes, it has a waiting list. Apparently you get a yes, maybe or no letter. As I said it can very much pick and choose who they want.

I am not sure how selective it is at 7 and 10/11. I know they do a sit down formal test though. Not sure how many or for how long though.

I suppose in an ideal world my preference would be state until year 5/6 and then private for secondary but it's such a risk if we doesn't get in. Looking at our local secondary schools results at only 50% A-C grade, that's a scary prospect!

Maybe they had a laid back approach because they know they can rely on reputation, they will always have plenty of people applying or they wanted to show they aren't that formal or academic in case it puts people off. Who knows. Maybe they feel the school sells itself. In terms of facilities it certainly does.

Titchy- where have I said I want how selective it is at 7/11?? You ve misinterpreted me. I said I worry he won't get in at 7/11 because the testing is more vigorous. I said I didn't like the idea of him sitting a pass/fail exam at that age and then potentially going to a rubbish secondary if we didn't have the means to move

I would take their arm off and send him private if the school is good. Our child is at a crap state school and we can't afford to move them til 11 by which time they may be behind and cannot pass the exam...