Prep school parents - did you tutor?

[Wellhereweare78]

So dd is in year 5 at a non-selective prep. She is top sets for everything and I had been quite relaxed re 11+ as the school has said repeatedly they do enough at school and NOT to tutor. DD came home last week and said that her class teacher asked for a show of hands re whether anyone was tutored and over half the class raised their hands. Is this usual? I can't really ask the mums at the school but it is making me a bit more nervous re 11+. I totally understand that state school parents would tutor but is tutoring so widespread among prep school kids too? I feel like dd gets enough homework and she has loads on after school with sport/clubs so I don't really want to add tutoring on top, plus I thought that's what prep schools were for but now wondering if she will make the cut when it comes to Indie exams if the competition is so ultra-prepped!!

We didn't have a private tutor and we have a DD who was also academically bright but slow to finish in English. We realised in year 5 that of the questions she answered in English she got pretty much right but she just wasn't making it all the way through the paper. It didn't leave a lot of time (if any!?) for the composition. I didn't want to bring in someone else, I just saw it as piling more work(pressure) on. Instead we did some fun things to speed her up that didn't involve writing pages and pages. Sometimes we did quick "you have one minute to describe......" for 10-15 minutes and left it at that for the day. We did it at home with quick sentences written down or sometimes when we were out it was as a chat. We also talked about family days out and holiday's and different ways you could describe the weather/scenery/people. Again not all written down and in short bursts. We also talked about how the descriptions she'd created in her mind were like a little bank she could use in stories and her exams. Close to the exams we did do practice papers at the weekend but it would be pretty unusual to do over an hour for any work. I do think the speed games helped. She went from not really finishing in year 5 to not having a problem in year 6.

This time last year it was a nail biting time but she did have a choice of schools and got into the school she really wanted. I'm not sure a conventional paid for tutor would have done it this way! I think parents expect pages of additional homework to show for their money.... If you'd paid your tutor and the kid said "yeah we just went to the park talked about the weather" probably wouldn't go down to well...

OP - a lot of children were tutored at my DS's prep for 13+. I decided against it as DS1 was already feeling the pressure and has dysgraphia so works a bit slowly. It meant he got into a slightly less selective school but I think for the moment that is right for him. He may move at 6th form as he is coping with pressure better as he matures. I would consider top up tutoring for GCSE if he wasn't getting to grips with a subject for some reason - sometimes a different approach can undo a mental block on something.
Threeschools consider getting your DD retested as she gets older as DS1's EP said that if a child has a problem sometimes they fall a bit further behind the cohort as they don't show the full expected improvements as they age.

Three schools, I think you are in London. Our experience is that some London day schools are excellent when it comes to SPLDs. Speak to each one and gauge their attitude. Some will not have a problem and will welcome your honesty. Others may not be interested, but you would not want to send your DD there anyway.

In terms of tutoring, I think it must go on. We did not tutor our son. He did narrowly missed the Tiffin 11+ but what he learned at Prep school was sufficient to get him into a selective senior school. He sat comfortably in the middle all the way through. The big surprise has been how well he is now doing at University. Part of the issue seems to be that those students who are used to tutor support through school (and his University has a big East Asian community where out of school tutoring is normal) can struggle if they have not developed self study techniques, their own motivation, and a realistic attitude to where they should sit within their peer group. Looking back he realises he was probably as bright as some of the kids who always seemed to come top. However it has done him no harm to have more left in the tank at tertiary stage. Its a marathon, rather than a sprint, and collecting the glittering prizes at 11 does you no good if you are going to struggle to keep it up. (Plus not tutoring means time to do other things, including developing softer EQ skills which wind up being as important.)

I second Needmoresleep on indies and SPLD. When DD2 was doing 11+, I asked to meet the SENCOs during open days. I even submitted her ed psych report with her application against the prep's advice. She did not require any extra time even though we had grounds to request it. My reasoning was- If they were going to reject DD2 due to SPLD, better to find out at that stage rather than later when support was lacking. For us, this was the right thing to do. Two schools in DD2's 'easy' column (as opposed to 'in case of disaster' and 'reach') did not even offer her an interview which made her not only the only top set girl not to get an offer but the only one out of top and middle set not to get an interview. It was a pretty clear message that even mild SPLD was unwelcome. DD2 is now at a tippety top selective indie where they see DD2's SPLD as an ongoing curious puzzle to solve and view it as their job to give her the support she needs to excel.

All these tales of prep school parents tutoring strike terror into the heart of this state school parent. A prep school already gives such advantage - and so much homework. Surely, there's no need to duplicate?

DD is in year 6 at a good state primary. She's bright but not exceptional - in top groups, but towards the bottom of those groups. On the advice of her tutor, she's applied to 5 indies - all in the top 40 when ranked by GCSE results - so all really competitive. She's had about 18 months worth of tutoring - mostly gentle, though more in earnest since Oct half-term. I am now panicking that it's not going to be enough and that she may get no offers.

We together choose not to apply to less selective indies because when we looked around, we just couldn't see her being happy there. We felt that she would have more of an intellectual peer group in top sets at our local comprehensive. Whilst I would prefer her to go elsewhere, having been through the state system, we're not afraid of it and would supplement with tutoring (again).

I promise to update after offers day as to what the outcome is.

Actually, I have a question for prep parents: do you apply to any state secondaries - just so you're absolutely guaranteed a place somewhere? I can't imagine doing this without such a safety net.

tinkerella thanks so much for that advice - it's actually really useful and we will try and put it in practice.

horsemadmom I suspected as much and is the reason why we're not applying to at least one school which was potentially a 'back up' - they have apparently said they don't do spLD's. Annoyingly our prep suggested it for dd but I had already heard about their views on spLD and when I pointed this out they conceded I had a point. Another school that is quite vocal about being good with spLD left me a little unsure at the open day. I spoke to the SENCO who was fine and then had a long chat with the registrar towards the end of the open day. Myself and DH were getting on with him v well and I mentioned dd's potential difficulties, to which he said, 'well there's no need to mention that on the registration form'. I felt like he was trying to help us out? I told him it was too late as we had already filled the form in and handed over the cash but did worry afterwards whether somehow stating dd's spLD in advance would have counted against her. A shame because that was one of the things that attracted us to the school.

stressedstatemum you have my utmost sympathy. I can imagine how stressful it must be to hear all this but I will add that most of the very academic schools we have looked at have had very high percentages of state school kids and I do know a couple of very tutored top set boys at dd's school who's pushy parents have applied year on year for our local superselective and been rejected. They are by all accounts very academic but lacking in social skills (both boys are very pushy Alpha males and not well liked among their peers), so there is hope.

Also, re your question on back up schools, we really struggle. The local secondary, which is 5 mins walk from us is very much a 'sink' school. Without giving away too much it was in the news not very long ago for some really shocking crimes, I don't want to say what as it makes it obvious where we are (although you can dm me if you're curious). The other local state secondaries are also not great, but we have one far from ideal back up.

Stressedstatemum - a lot depends on how happy parents are with the prep school's performance. Our head gives advice on where to apply and sometimes parents don't like what they are told and vow that their kid will do better than predicted.

We did state school applications as well but the majority at our prep didn't

Actually, I have a question for prep parents: do you apply to any state secondaries - just so you're absolutely guaranteed a place somewhere? I can't imagine doing this without such a safety net.

Even in London where private secondaries are very oversubscribed, it's unusual for someone to not find a spot. Our head told us in that 15 years, it had happened only once.

It's pretty unusual to go from private primary to state secondary where we are.

Stressedstatemum, I feel your pain - it feels so unfair when kids at private schools get tutored especially since round my way they seem to book up the most sought-after tutors! It's as if tiny classes, no/few very challenging children, cats tests, tests, interview prep, general exam technique etc etc that they get at school isn't enough... I do wonder what they're paying for. The OP says her daughter is at a non-selective prep but surely there are no non-selective preps - my ds had kids in his class who couldn't count to ten by y6 (very disrupted home lives, resistance to any diagnosis).

Anyway, when we did it for my ds, I did wonder how on earth he'd have any chance. Top table but not effortlessly so, very deprived primary in disarray for various reasons. In the exams, he was a polyester fleece in a sea of stripy blazers. We only did three schools and they were all pretty selective (top 30 I think, and bear in mind that it's even worse for boys since some previously boys' schools have gone co-ed). We felt as you do, that he'd have a more able cohort in the top set of a comprehensive than in a less selective school (where we are it's all or nothing - v.selective or not very at all at 11+ - once actually there, there are lots of less able children but they've got in at 3 via the attached prepreps).

While we were doing it, I wished we had put a less selective school into the mix just so he'd get in somewhere, but we didn't because I knew it would be doing an additional exam for no reason (and frankly three exams, three interviews, was bad enough).

Anyway... in the end, he was interviewed at all three and was offered two of them. At one point, we were convinced he wouldn't even get an interview as he seemed to litter his practice papers with careless errors. Now he's there, he's doing well and was ahead in maths (behind in science, languages, but has easily caught up in the former).

It's grim, it really is. Even though it worked out in the end, I do feel a bit scarred. Annoyed at the schools for bragging about at the great results they achieve with a group of highly trained bright kids. They feel like hospitals that only take in healthy patients and then brag about how good their doctors must be since so many less of them die than the NHS place down the road.

On the positive side, at least doing it from a state school you're not surrounded by other parents/children all stressing together. And we know that children can and will do very well in state schools whereas the privately educated primary families I know where in a frenzy about it since they were sure that a comprehensive would be worse than borstal.

Sorry you've got an essay from me, but it really brings it all back, especially since we're stupidly doing it all over again next year with the sibling...

I think that unless you are talking about superselective with over 8 applications per place, clever children from sate schools can do really well without tutoring, as long as they have had some exposure to past papers and VR/NVR. At the end of the day, innate intelligence does show itself.

Tutoring won't turn a very limited child into a very bright one, but it can allow someone who is a bit marginal to get through. So the marginals form Prep schools or who have intensive tutoring from state schools do have an advantage over the marginals who are at state schools and/or receive no help.

As I said before I think it is all fostered by fear. Many parents put their kids in Prep schools because they fear that the state school won't get their child to the necessary level. The state school may well get the, there.....but they do t want to take the risk and will pay to minimise that risk. Having joined Prep school, the fear returns when they hear about tutoring, so they pay for some of that too. In the face of others choosing Prep and choosing Tutors it is hard to be brave and trust in your child's natural ability (which isn't entirely known) or to trust in the judgement of the school. Prep plus tutor is a belt and braces thing......and if there were more things that could be paid for and bought in, parents would and do do it......hence the surge towards Mandarin lessons, multiple instruments etc - probably things which. Don't make much difference, but parents become obsessed about keeping up with the Jones'.

I agree that it is terrifying for a state school parent or one who hasn't and cannot get a tutor. However, as a positive, I really believe that parents can do a lot themselves and a few Bond books or an online subscription (whilst not available to those who can afford nothing) can take a child a long long way, if they have a good level of innate intelligence. The Tutors and the Preps do ad do value to kids, but at a high price and as switched on parents, it's possible to add plenty of value if you have the inclination, time and a bit of money. Don't despair! It is certainly am unfair world, but those whose parents care and can and will put in time and effort, a much more level playing fired can be created for entrance exams. The ones who really suffer are those whose parents aren't interested or who will not or cannot provide any help at all. For them, the Prep and Tutored advantage really does put the deprived kids at a severe disadvantage, although each year you hear of the very unusual self starter who applies themesleves without parental support and gets in by innate intelligence......but they are few and far between.

Tutoring is widespread, and then some, especially amongst prep schoolers, almost by definition for those investing in their children's education. Most families tutor. Anyone in your year group is competition, as you are aware, so don't expect full disclosure there. Parents in the year above might offer more accurate feedback and advice as well as this forum. Whether you choose to tutor or not familiarity with the exam style will always help so search out as many past papers as you can for the schools you wish to target.

Tutoring is widespread, and then some, especially amongst prep schoolers, almost by definition for those investing in their children's education. Most families tutor. Anyone in your year group is competition, as you are aware, so don't expect full disclosure there. Parents in the year above might offer more accurate feedback and advice as well as this forum. Whether you choose to tutor or not familiarity with the exam style will always help so search out as many past papers as you can.

Thanks for the messages of support. DD got invited today for interview by her favourite school, which is known to have a pretty high passmark, so we're both feeling a lot better. I realise it's only the first hurdle, but it's pretty encouraging.