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Prep school parents - did you tutor?

64 replies

Wellhereweare78 · 15/01/2017 21:03

So dd is in year 5 at a non-selective prep. She is top sets for everything and I had been quite relaxed re 11+ as the school has said repeatedly they do enough at school and NOT to tutor. DD came home last week and said that her class teacher asked for a show of hands re whether anyone was tutored and over half the class raised their hands. Is this usual? I can't really ask the mums at the school but it is making me a bit more nervous re 11+. I totally understand that state school parents would tutor but is tutoring so widespread among prep school kids too? I feel like dd gets enough homework and she has loads on after school with sport/clubs so I don't really want to add tutoring on top, plus I thought that's what prep schools were for but now wondering if she will make the cut when it comes to Indie exams if the competition is so ultra-prepped!!

OP posts:
lapsedorienteerer · 16/01/2017 20:18

No tutor, why would I pay school fees AND a tutor Confused

MuseumOfCurry · 16/01/2017 20:34

Mine have both gone to a London prep and everyone tutors.

If she's very bright she'll be fine, but consider that on paper she'll look the same at less bright children who have been more heavily prepared.

It's maddening.

Noitsnotteatimeyet · 16/01/2017 20:38

Threeschools you realise that by the time your ds does his GCSEs A*s will be long gone, replaced by 8s and 9s ...

Children at very academic schools will be fine - my niece is at a highly selective girls' school and was always in the bottom set for maths. She was feeling a bit panicked by this until she realised that in the year before, the worst mark in the bottom set was an A and the majority got A* (as did she the following year despite not being a 'natural' mathematician)

My dc had no tutoring and is now in the top sets of an academically selective school and doing really well across the board. The only reason for tutoring at secondary level imo is if a child has a genuine problem understanding a particular subject or if the teaching for some reason is particularly poor (i.e. science or languages being taught by non-specialists or lots of staff turnover which is pretty unlikely in the sort of schools you're talking about)

Itsneverlate · 16/01/2017 20:52

I realised that in my DC very selective school the ones in the bottom set of maths benefit from the very small class and a lot of individual attention. Most of them will end up having A* and the fact that they are in the botyom set, do not affect their confidence from what I see.

MuseumOfCurry · 16/01/2017 21:57

I realised that in my DC very selective school the ones in the bottom set of maths benefit from the very small class and a lot of individual attention. Most of them will end up having A* and the fact that they are in the botyom set, do not affect their confidence from what I see.

Any child that has cleared an independent selective secondary school via the CE will almost certainly get an A* on the maths GCSE by virtue of scoring a 70% on the level 3 CE.

MuseumOfCurry · 16/01/2017 21:58

Or thereabouts.

PurveyorOfMeats · 16/01/2017 22:21

That's really bad of the class teacher to put Y5 kids in that position, and the parents who like you OP are now fretting about tutoring.

I've got 2 DC in highly selective secondary, they came from a very relaxed prep. I didn't catch on with DD that tutoring was a thing until half way through the autumn term before 11+ (no one talks about it, it's a dirty word Hmm, so she did about 6 1hr sessions with a lovely lady who knew these exams inside out. So when DS 2 was coming up for 11+, he did a term, 1 hr a week, focusing on stuff he didn't "get". Also things that the tutor knew would be in the exam but he hadn't even studied at school yet - turns out they did algebra for example in the summer term of Y6. For this reason alone I think we made the right choice to tutor. If either had had to be intensively tutored to get into these schools, I would take the view that school life would end up being too much for them and they should go elsewhere. Also tutoring isn't a guarantee of success - I know one kid who practically lived at her tutor's house and didn't get the schools she wanted.

Has your DD's school advised you about where she's likely to get a place? If so, this is likely to be on the basis that she WON'T be tutored, and if they are good and barring any exam disasters, you should be able to rely on their predictions.

IMHO tutoring is OK if you use it wisely. I know my DC's schools are dead against tutoring throughout secondary. As PPs have said, if you're in a top school, you're going to be getting A/A* (or 9/10) with only the school's help.

roundaboutthetown · 16/01/2017 23:09

If you don't think your child needs tutoring, it's probably because she doesn't. Some parents are just neurotic, a few sneeze and they all catch a cold. The result is huge amounts of wasted time, stress and money. Don't be an idiot and join in with the rest of them, they are only harming themselves and their children by going totally ott.

GreenGinger2 · 17/01/2017 06:47

I thought GCSEs no longer score with As and Bs. I thought 9 is now the highest score and reserved for the truely G&T not the heavily tutored ie it's far harder to get than A*.

GetAHaircutCarl · 17/01/2017 06:57

IGCSEs which many independent schools use, will retain the old scoring system AFAIK.

So A* will remain currency.

GreenGinger2 · 17/01/2017 07:58

Never heard of them. On Googling it appears they are a combination of the old Olevel/ lesser CSE and are often criticised for not having enough challenge.

If it were my DC I think I'd be worrying more about that than getting A*s in a now redundant exam.

MuseumOfCurry · 17/01/2017 08:45

Never heard of them. On Googling it appears they are a combination of the old Olevel/ lesser CSE and are often criticised for not having enough challenge.

I can say with authority that they have the IGSCE at Westminster - a reliably challenging curriculum.

ChocolateWombat · 17/01/2017 08:46

I think it's just a sad but reality fact, that when school places are in big demand and the way you are judged and those places allocated by performance in a test, people will always seek to confer advantage on their own child......that comes innthenform of going to a Prep school in the first place and then in terms of using a tutor.

We live in a system where there is no absolute certainty of a place, even for a clever child. There are lots of clever children and fewer places than there is demand for. In areas with less demand for places,no imagine tutoring is less rife, but once people feel their kids might miss out, they will move heaven and earth to make sure that doesn't happen. It can start with an hour of tutoring per week, but once some parents hear that others are having more, they do it too. I think it all arises from fear. And it's hard to be courageous rather than fearful, in the face of lots of competition and if you have a sense that this is a once only chance and it really matters.

Regarding independent schools, I think the problem lies in people believing too strongly that only one or two schools can deliver what their child needs. People with kids in Prep schools can mostly afford to pay and will be able to pay for Secondary too - so,nt hey aren't going to be left with the sink comprehensive and are in a very enviable position compared to most of the population who have far less choice. There are enough places at independent schools for Prep school children. Whilst the are some ropey ones which sent worth paying for, most will be offering a good education. Most will be able to provide for a range of abilities and to give our kids a good education. So tbh, I think that Prep school parent angst is more daft than that from people hoping to get a state school grammar place - for many of hose who can't afford to pay, it really is a question of getting a good school or a much Les good one.but for Prep school parents, there are usually lots of good options and that's really worth remembering.

I think the Prep schools know this and work hard to get the message across, but parents are a bit deaf to it. Prep schools who have seen kids of all abilities over many many years do have a good sense of who is suitable for where. They know that their ex pupils go onto achieve success at school and later life from all kinds of secondary schools. They advise against tutoring and know it's not great to be someone at the bottom who struggles because they only got in through intensive tutoring. However, Prep school parents don't want to hear the message and sometimes I think they enjoy the angst just a little bit.....it's the competition and the cut throat nature of it all - many of them by nature are pretty competitive and in some ways like to live vicariously through their kids. They can gain great pleasure from saying X got a place at Y and even better if a scholarship can be mentioned. Some feel a sense of shame if their child goes to Z school because it is seen as lower innthenpecking order....but forget Z might be a great school too.

Anyway, I don't see any reduction in tutoring coming anytime soon. Isn't it just a consequence of a competitive system.....people will always seek to confer advantage on their child if they can.

MuseumOfCurry · 17/01/2017 08:48

I thought GCSEs no longer score with As and Bs. I thought 9 is now the highest score and reserved for the truely G&T not the heavily tutored ie it's far harder to get than A*.

Also, the GCSEs (or IGSCEs) are not IQ tests. More effort = better results.

GetAHaircutCarl · 17/01/2017 08:54

Independent schools will stick with IGCSEs for now.

For one thing they can avoid the uncertainty of the next few years with the government's badly thought out new exams.

I'm sure many state schools would like to avoid it too - but they are effectively being stripped of the choice.

IDK · 17/01/2017 09:40

I'm going to set your alarm bells off again OP. SorryBlush

Your description of your DD is very similar to my DS. He was towards the top in his Junior, which had a strong history of sending pupils to respected Secondaries and super-selective Grammars, so I didn't see the point in sending him to a tutor. We did past papers at home but, not being a professional, I didn't know what to look for.
If we had had a tutor they might have spotted that having to "work on speed as she has had trouble finishing exams in time" was a big worry. It was a while ago that DS took his entrance exam so things may have changed but back then speed was a big thing and something that they tested, so his slowness counted against him.
I realised later that his slowness was due to a SpLD (dyspraxia) so no amount of practice could have resolved it. It wasn't 'slowness'; he had trouble with processing. He should have had a disability adjustment.
At Junior school he could get away with it - his IQ overcame his SpLD - but as life became more complex his disability held him back until I got him tested because something was 'not right' in the disparity between his brain and his exam results.

It may be worth getting your DD seen by a tutor or an assessor to see if she is on a level playing field or whether she needs the extra-time disability adjustment in entrance exams.

Wellhereweare78 · 17/01/2017 10:26

Thanks all - ChocolateWombat - agree with every word, I think you have summed things up pretty well.

IDK yes, I know what you mean. I didn't mention dd's difficulties as they are very identifying (she has a difficulty that no other girls at her school have). She has had some OT for it and we are booked in to see an Ed Psych to find out if she would qualify for extra time. The problem is that she's actually doing pretty well academically and her school certainly don't see it as a huge issue - although they have said to me time and again that she is bright but works slowly. I think her prep are also of the view that any spld should not be raised unless absolutely necessary. I don't agree with this at all because like your ds I think she is compensating right now but may struggle when she is older. I'm happier to spend the money on getting an Ed Psych's report done than getting a tutor in, which if nothing else will give us peace of mind that she is not being unfairly disadvantaged. If at the end of the day she isn't suited to a high pressure environment, whether due to spLD or not, then so be it.

OP posts:
IDK · 17/01/2017 10:33

If at the end of the day she isn't suited to a high pressure environment, whether due to spLD or not, then so be it.

It's not whether she is suited to them but whether they are suited to her! Have you looked into disability support at your various Secondaries? Ours was useless. It wasn't until DS under-performed at GCSE that I started finding out what was wrong and realising the whole SpLD thing; the school (comp) hadn't noticed.

Threeschools · 17/01/2017 10:44

that's another problem altogether IDK. I have another child who is like that, I couldn't comprehend how such a clever girl could have such average results at school. She was complaining of never have time to finish her tasks, so I got her assessed (as one does). Well, she scored 136 (very superior range) in verbal comprehension but 85 in processing speed (very low indeed) but no specific learning disabilities. Unfortunately for her, to qualify for extra time in exams you need 84 or less, so she is very disadvantaged and I am at my wit end about how to help her with speed.

Wellhereweare78 · 17/01/2017 10:57

How frustrating Threeschools - this is my concern with dd. I have a strong feeling that while I'm confident she has some spLD needs, I suspect they will not be severely affected enough to qualify for extra time but will be at a level where it will (and does) impact on her. Being borderline as your dd is must be so difficult.

OP posts:
IDK · 17/01/2017 11:04

That's a bummer, threeschools. It may be worth getting her re-assessed, seeing as she is borderline, when she is coming up to something important like GCSEs or A Levels.
It helped DS to know that it wasn't 'his fault', he was born that way. Once we had his problems described then he could start thinking about strategies eg veer towards coursework instead of exams.
You don't have to get everything right to do well in exams. You can either do 100% of the questions and get them each 70% right or you can do 70% of the questions and get them 100% right.

There is more to education than passing exams so as long as she makes a fair stab at them - which at 136 she should do - then she will be fine in the long run.

MuseumOfCurry · 17/01/2017 11:19

It is also very common to get an ed psych report it in the run-up to the 11+. I've done it with both of mine. Wink

Threeschools · 17/01/2017 11:21

I recommend you follow your instincts OP, like you the school was not bothered as she was getting on and being average. And the teacher to whom I spoke to first was so annoying, she basically told me that one can have a less clever child and to get over it. I am glad we did in the end, as she is very clever indeed but needs more time to process everything, now that we know this I am way more patient with her. She is still at primary (y4) and can't decide if she should try for a selective school or not.

IDK · 17/01/2017 11:41

Threeschools if it's any consolation, they are much better at dealing with disabilities at University. The problem is getting through the school system so you actually get to University!
Your major task at the moment is confidence and motivation, keeping DD engaged in spite of her problems.

Threeschools · 17/01/2017 11:49

Yes, I feel that for confidence and motivation she would be better off in a mixed ability school, but I fear she will be bored.

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