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Private school wants to open free school near me. Why?

160 replies

Dibbets · 23/09/2016 21:11

A private school on the other side of the city wants to open a free school near where I live. The idea is quite appealing as there isn't a well regarded school near here and many children bus out to other areas. But I can't help feeling a bit uneasy about the proposal. What's in it for them? They talk about it being a beneficial partnership for both sides but the focus is on sharing knowledge and a moral drive to raise standards across the board. It seems a bit unlikely that they would invest so much effort into this for such woolly reasons.

OP posts:
Genevieva · 27/09/2016 17:56

This is all based on the assumption that 'academic' subject are more valuable, when that shouldn't be the case. They also don't necessarily lead to more lucrative jobs, not that I think high pay should be the primary measure of success, but by way of example, a doctor I know told me that her local private school is now largely the preserve of successful plumbers, electricians and other small business owners, while the local solicitors and doctors who would have used the school a generation ago are now all sending their children to the state primary school.

The IBacc is part of the a system that values academic achievement over any other form of achievement. It is fine for those children who do indeed succeed in it, but it doesn't change the fact that 10% of children leave with absolutely nothing. In the past, when bits of paper proving exam results were less important, they would have found it easier to make something of themselves in their adult lives. Now they are far more likely to be trapped.

Britain and the USA consistently produce mediocre results in Pisa tests, yet have better economies that offer their populations far more diverse job opportunities than many countries with higher Pisa scores. There are a variety of reasons for this, but among them is the fax that our creative industries are enormous.

Minifingerz, you are too easily offended on Noblegiraffe's behalf. It was a theoretical argument, not a personal one. There is no need to take offence. Noblegiraffe said:

"Giving people of wealth and power an opt out from the state system in the form of private education is actively damaging (in my opinion) to state education."

I think that the idea that choice is something that the state should grant where it deems fit is deeply troubling. The idea of preventing people from choosing how to educate their children is akin to a Soviet or Maoist level of intrusion into the freedoms of private individuals. Ironing out inequality by banning education choice would indeed be horribly intrusive. In that context, there is a relevant parallel between private schooling and extracurricular activities.

It is reasonable to extrapolate an idea to its logical conclusion. This is not underhand - it is just playing with ideas. If you wanted to take it a step further you would have a hypothetical society in which everyone wears the same clothes, children are all sent to state-run nurseries from almost the moment of birth... You could reach a theoretical extreme in the other direction if someone wanted to suggest that everyone should contribute towards the costs of educating their children (an argument I have heard from a childless taxpayer before).

Private schools exist. They are part of the history and fabric of this country, in the same way that Christian schools are. I don't see any value in involving them in state education, just as I am opposed to the creation of new faith schools. Nevertheless, I don't see any value in banning them or of creating convoluted ways of 'allowing' them to continue to exist, as if that right can be withdrawn at the drop of a hat.

mathsmum314 · 27/09/2016 17:57

exexpat, yip would agree and that's how the current selective system is letting us down.

If the council/government didn't have to pay for those parents at Cathedral to have a selective elite education then they might have been able to afford to build a school in this deprived instead of a private school having to do it.

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2016 18:29

academic' subjects are more valuable

Well they are, aren't they, in terms of keeping doors open? No one was ever refused onto a Health and Social level 3 BTEC because they didn't have a level 2 BTEC but a bunch of academic GCSEs instead.

Look at the King Solomon Academy in London. A non-selective state school with exceptionally high FSM, that gets 95% A*-C inc maths and English and 77% of its pupils get the Ebacc. Would you seriously say 'Actually, I don't think we need more schools like that'?

Genevieva · 27/09/2016 19:15

Of course not, but I would question whether the education provided was the best fit for the 5% who didn't get A*-Cs and perhaps even the 23% who didn't get the EBacc. Without more information beyond that raw data it is impossible to know whether those children's needs are being met by the EBacc, whether they enjoyed the education they were given and whether it improved their longterm job prospects.

We are stuck in a rut in terms of the standard model of education that we offer children and, if we are honest, there is really very little difference between most state and private schools. They largely follow the national curriculum and aim for the same exams. There are so many alternatives if you free yourself from trying to get children to fit existing moulds.

A friend in Brussels pointed out that 45 minutes of MFL a day would result in a generation of children fluent in another language. It is possible to think of 100 reason why it isn't possible, from lack of teachers to the need to allow enough time for SATs preparation, but if you put all that to one side it makes you realise that there is a world of possibility out there.

Someone else I know has a son who has just started an apprenticeship. It sounds like an amazing fit for the child in question, who is reasonably academic, but dyslexic. It will be intellectually stimulating, provides plenty of time for study towards vocational qualifications and pays a good starter salary. When I said how impressed I was that the school had such a good careers department, he told me he had found out accidentally through a friend of a friend. Nothing to do with the school at all, which is completely focussed on the A Level - University route.

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2016 19:16

Here are 2015 admissions to BCCS

Bristol Cathedral Choir School – Ofsted Outstanding

Former private school now academy
Ward – Cabot (Central BS1)
Admission number 2016: 120
September 2015 on time applications – 785
September 2015 Allocations:
9 SEN
3 Looked After Children
8 Probationer Choristers
12 Music specialists
43 Siblings,
1 Medical and Social
3 Children of staff
41 Random Allocation

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2016 19:20

Colston’s Girls’ School – Ofsted Outstanding
Former private school now academy
Ward – Ashley (Central BS6)
Admission number 2015 – 140 places
September 2015 on time applications – 583
September 2015 Allocations:
4 SEN
2 Children in Care
14 Foreign Language
25 Siblings
1 Child of Staff
94 Random Allocation

mathsmum314 · 27/09/2016 20:15

[[https://www.bristol.gov.uk/documents/20182/34224/Bristol+Cathedral.pdf/70f2da1f-7cf6-4fe6-85cf-5aee1f3ca90a ALLOCATION STATEMENT FOR ENTRY TO YEAR 7 2016/17

Bristol Cathedral Choir School (BCCS):]]

How the 120 places have been allocated for Year 7 September 2015:
4 places have been reserved at the request of the SEN team for children with a Statement of Special Educational Needs (SEN) or Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP).

The remaining 116 places have been allocated by applying the oversubscription criteria, in order, as set out in the published admission arrangements 2016/17 for the 1st round of allocation:
• ‘Looked after’ children or ‘previously looked after’ children (5 places).
• Probationer Choristers at The Cathedral (8 places).
• Music Specialists (12 places).

• Siblings (61 places).
• Medical & social (0 places).
• Son/daughter of BCCS members of staff (1 place).
• Randomly allocated (29 places)

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2016 20:22

Which of the categories do you have an issue with, mathsmum? Do you think that siblings shouldn't get in?

Dibbets · 27/09/2016 20:33

The opening of Redland Green school had an immediate impact on Bristol private schools. Another one has just closed (Redland High). It's in an area where previously parents would have used private education and many would/still do if they can't get in. The catchment is now ridiculously small and getting a place relies on buying a very expensive house making it just as selective as most private schools.

OP posts:
mathsmum314 · 27/09/2016 23:07

noblegiraffe - obviously we disagree but nothing I say is meant to be a personal comment.

I look at BCCS and I see a very selective school, most likely the same children (and their siblings) there from when it was private. I would even doubt that any of the 29 random allocations are given to high achieving working class students. I only see a burden on the state that it didn't previously have, less resources for the other schools and yet the stats are improved so that's ok. What about that is good?

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