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Education

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Parents won't discipline children, schools are not allowed to discipline children, so grammar chools are the way forward.

385 replies

Longlost10 · 09/09/2016 19:40

The whole comprehensive system is dragged down by the financial, spiritual, moral, educational and professional cost of the huge number of total wasters in the student body. Those who disrupt lessons, ignore teachers, distract students, talk back, waste time, make paper aeroplanes out of worksheets, dawdle in late, don't bother to do their homework, don't come equipped, chat and fidget and generally make no attempt to learn. They are utterly selfish and just tink of nothing but enjoying themselves.They are pandered to and spoilt, offered endless chances, suck the system dry of money, time, energy, and resources. Teachers are held responsible for their imbecilic behaviour, and grind themselves into dust trying to work to change behavior which is under someone elses control entirely.

This is why I support grammar schools. It gives the top 25% the opportunity to get away from these yobs, and and incentive to behave well, and keep behaving well, as a grammar school student needs to maintain certain levels of behavior and achievement to remain a grammar school student.

So overall, the poor behavior goes down. Because a grammar school place is an incentive to behave properly, and so some bad behaviour improves.

In a comp, badly behaved pupils have nothing to lose. That changes in a grammar system.

And a large number of students can get away from the poor behaviour too. Of course there is some bad behaviour in grammar schools, but it isn't comparable.

So less bad behaviour, more learning, and fewer students affected by bad behaviour in others. Whats not to like??

Of course it doesn't solve the problem of having to put up with bad behaviour in secondary modern classrooms, but it doesn't make it any worse either.

OP posts:
mrz · 11/09/2016 18:29

Actually the biggest impact is from "feedback" almost twice the impact of early years interventions like SureStart

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 18:31

I do not believe it is about money. In my experience, in fact, it's not about money. It's about culture of learning and curriculum.

My experience is limited to being a parent and observing (through my children's experiences) the learning culture of around ten or a dozen different schools in different countries.

sandyholme · 11/09/2016 18:32

Sure Start was mostly monopolised by middle-class Mumsnet mothers who took full advantage of transporting their preschool children from group to group.

My daughter had a timetable of events for the week and her Audi estate was not out of place in the car park. A nice little perk for the well organised career-woman on extended maternity leave !

www.leftfootforward.org/2016/01/do-we-still-need-sure-start-in-2016/#

user1471734618 · 11/09/2016 18:37

" Education should lift you away from your disadvantages, not reinforce them. Parental input reinforces them. "

quite. One good reason to stop all that dress up and homework project nonsense.

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 18:39

With you all the way user.

mrz · 11/09/2016 18:39

And 30 hours nursery provision will effectively exclude the most disadvantaged

mrz · 11/09/2016 18:43

Interesting user1471 the only complaints on our end of year parental feedback was that we didn't have dress up days for World Book Day etc ...can't please everyone

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 18:45

Mrz can you stereotype which type of parents were complaining? Was it the sort of parents who would engage with a lot of parental input and homework, or the sort who don't/can't/won't make any contribution to their chid's learning? Or is it not possible to generalise.

mrz · 11/09/2016 18:49

It's not possible to generalise as feedback is anonymous

Poundpup · 11/09/2016 18:49

sandyholme, I will be honest that I do not know much about Sure Start. As you can't claim FSM until you are in full time nursery care and if it is monopolised by the MC. Is now the time to restrict Sure start to people who have incomes of 16K or less and spare places can then be taken up by everyone else.

mrz · 11/09/2016 18:49

It's not possible to generalise as feedback is anonymous

mrz · 11/09/2016 18:54

And we had at least one suggestion that we should set homework projects

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 18:55

What would your guess be Mrz? My guess would be that it's not the feckless don't give a shit parents - or 70-hour a week parents for that matter - who are complaining that there wasn't any dressing up in school.

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 18:56

Do you think the can't/won't/don't parents even contribute to the feedback at school?

mrz · 11/09/2016 19:04

I wouldn't guess

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 19:08

You wouldn't even have an opinion on my opinion?

My opinion is that it's highly likely that the people who give feedback in the first place, and especially the sort of people who want more dressing up, are the sort of parents who like to give lots of parental input, and have the time, the education and the money to do so.

So what if they want more dress up days. It would disadvantage the children who don't have such super mums and dads.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 11/09/2016 19:13

sandy - it's actually better in terms of management for the students to come in to your room. Rather than you come into a room they're already in. Also many schools do not allow students in a room without a teacher (esp. true in labs) and it's generally students who move around rather than teachers.
Also in some of our rooms, the chairs scraping on the floor make a dreadful noise and disturb other lessons not just your own.

mrz · 11/09/2016 19:13

I would say that the feedback comes from many types of parents

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 19:14

Do you think my opinion is wrong, and that the don't/won't/can't parents are asking for more homework projects?

mrz · 11/09/2016 19:16

I know exactly who asked for the homework project ...a parent whose child loves making models

merrymouse · 11/09/2016 19:19

Whether or not you ask for parental input, it is inevitable, particularly when it comes to tests at age10/11.

mrz · 11/09/2016 19:20

Is it?

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 19:21

So probably not a don't care parent? What does this show, Mrz, as you thought it relevant. Does it show that there should be more homework projects or that more homework projects would help the children of don't/won't/can't parents? You're a teacher I'm inferring, and I'm not, so your experience will be very different to mine and I want to know what you think. I've been brusque because I hate faffing about. But I'd like to know what you think please.

WinchesterWoman · 11/09/2016 19:22

Yes some parents will always help but it will be extra, not necessary. There shouldn't be big holes in their education if parents aren't involved.

mrz · 11/09/2016 19:23

IT shows that some parents hate dressing up and homework projects while others love them ...so schools can't win whatever they do ...nothing more