In praise of comprehensive schools

[FreshHorizons]

It was cheering to see the Sutton Trust announce that 60% of Team GB medalists came from comprehensive schools.

I have finally come off a thread where certain people can't find a good word to say about comprehensive schools. They equate them with mixed ability teaching, poor behaviour and an inability to stretch bright children.

I would like a thread to celebrate the best of comprehensive education.

In my case it allowed my 3 , very different, children to be able to go to the same school without being judged by outsiders. It meant the stability of knowing one school over a long period of time and them knowing our family. It meant that days off and parent evenings didn't clash and that money was saved by handing down uniform. They were able to move up with the bulk from their primary school. They were able to mix with children of different abilities and backgrounds, as you do in adult life. It meant being able to enjoy education for the joy of learning new things, without the stress of an exam that would determine their path in life, aged only 10 or 11yrs.

Those things didn't really matter, although they were helpful.

What really mattered was that they could all blossom at their own rate.
They all got a good education and are now happily established in careers- the careers that they chose.

It wasn't all about the academic side- there were opportunities in sport, music, outdoor activities etc.

It would be nice to have some success stories. Please don't post about crap schools- start another thread for that if you have grievances you want to air.

It is the summer, the sun is out and some happy, optimistic stories would be nice.

or instance Chatham and Clarendon Grammar in Ramsgate have 30% middle ability

That's 30 middle ability students, not 30%, it's more like 19%.

I don't know the school at all, I wonder why they run out of high ability children and have to start taking level 4 kids in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37286475

Noble Having spent to long poring over the D of E data (strictly amateur though) these are the contrasts between Middle Achievers and High Achievers in grammars:

Average GCSE point score for MA in Lincs 355 for HA 402
Kent 345 HA 402
Bucks 363 HA 418

That's a gap of nearly a full GCSE grade so fairly huge. It makes you wonder how accurate the 11+ is as opposed to SATS levels. PM if you want the original documents though I repeat, I am an amateur.

The proposed grammar school documents don't tell us anything we did not know!

It was obvious the proposals were going to be 'fudged' and watered down , because Governments typically lose their 'bottle' when trying to be radical!

Why do they get 'obsessed' with minutiae such as 'FSM' numbers in grammar schools when deciding on who or what can expand their provision!

'First' create more available spaces and then find ways of increasing the numbers of socially deprived children !

Though to me as declared above, 'FSM' rates or social deprivation levels should have nothing to do with the creation of schools!

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/2014/school.pl?urn=136382 Chatham and Clarendon numbers from 2014 Corrections 1.5% SEN 28% Middle ability .

Noble may i suggest you read this book

www.amazon.co.uk/Teaching-Children-High-Functioning-Autism-Strategies-ebook/dp/B00CPREU16

*sandyholme so did 5% of your family go to sec. mods? If so, how has it worked out for them?

Ah that's 2014 data, sandy, 2015 data is here: www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136382

Why are you recommending me a book about autism?

Noble because i would like you to be able to pick out a child who is not achieving their potential due to Autism ! .

But probably more importantly , i don't think many teachers have got a 'clue; about HFA . The more teachers who at least spend 'five' minutes reading about it away from their preconceived ideas, or leaving Autistic children to 'TEACHING ASSISTANTS ' the better.

Mum . 'Crap' in how it turned out academically for me !
However, do you really think it would have turned academically different for me from any school.

I mentioned a Comprehensive school in Cheshire , near where i lived with my Uncle for a time that just threw all children with disabilities together. The school just lumped them in to one 'unit ' with no differentiation towards pupils abilities or disabilities!

So no going to a '1980s' Modern school was not what 'fucked' it for me but having a disability at school in the 1980s!

ooh err- anyone just see the Channel 4 news?
Go- Angela Rayner!!!!

Its only a shame that the Labour party will have 165 seats at the next election then !

She could promise to make everyone a 'Millonaire' , come to think of it hasn't her boss pledged to spend £500 BILLON . They better start buying up Hasbro's full production line of MONOPOLY sets and making the money legal tender !

Lack of a strong opposition is pretty tragic yes.....

I just wonder how the Tories will fudge the Grammar school issue, to make sure that a fair proportion of the disadvantaged get places? Make lower offers for the children getting Free School Meals? Imagine the annoyance of middle class parents whose children get higher results, don't get in, and have to go to the Sec Mod.

But probably more importantly , i don't think many teachers have got a 'clue; about HFA

My DS is on the waiting list for assessment, picked up by his reception teacher.
In addition I think I'm teaching half a dozen kids on the spectrum this year, over various classes. I also mentor a sixth form lad who is diagnosed with Aspergers.

It's not like when you were at school. I will look at the book though.

Having now seen the leaked document I think they'll have great difficulty getting this through the Lords. there isn't any way of expanding grammars that doesn't "disadvantage those not getting in". You either think the disadvantage is a price worth paying or you don't. As Michael Wilshaw said

Every time you create a grammar school you create three secondary moderns and no one is queueing up to go to a secondary modern.”

I suspect one beneficiary of all this will be Tim Farron - he's already planning to lead the fight aginst in the Lords - he'll get lots of publicity and endear himself to the centre voters he's trying to attract..

Nobel . Thank you and best wishes for your DS !

I am really pleased you are mentoring the sixth form lad and with an attitude like yours , i am sure the other six children will be well served.

Incidentally the Comprehensive i talked about in Cheshire was their ideas from 1995 so hopefully they have moved on from the 'prehistoric' policies i mentioned !

Sam Freedman, ex Gove crony and fanatically anti-grammar thinks this leak is good news:

twitter.com/Samfr/status/773175557047615488

Tim Farron might win '1' seat if he plays his cards right A Bruce'ie Bonus!

The Liberal Democrats will rise again when Atlantis reawakens and reestablishes itself as a great trading colony !

The LIberal Democrats are not even a 'protest' party and they don't even need a 'minibus' to transport their 8 MPs just an MPV from Uber do the job ....

I think the one thing i can agree with everybody is the amount of 'GRAMMER' supporters is ridiculous !

If i see 'GRAMMER' written again on newspaper sites (not just the Mail , but Guardian and Huffington Post i will scream).

LOL Peregrina! I am tempted to back this exhumation of grammars just to witness the spectacle.

On the other hand I imagine that the merest whiff of such a system would have mc parents engineering a year of unemployment round about the end of Yr 5, having paid the tutor in advance (tutors will introduce a system of selling credits to year 3 parents , to be used in Yr 4 and 5 to allow for the unemployed year),

No doubt people will work all sorts of dodges to prove that they are deserving of a place.

I do wonder whether this document was leaked accidentally on purpose. We have seen quite a few documents exposed by being in clear plastic wallets, so you think they would have learnt by now.

There are quite a few kids on the ASD spectrum at ds' school, despite it not being one of the secondaries that officially deals with autism. One of the girls even gave a talk at a City Council event on what it is like to be autistic (her dad was very proud of her for standing up in front of all these people).

There are two schools in the city with official autistic units - one for HFA (I know one of the boys there and his mum is very happy with the school and their high exam aspirations for him) and the other more for autistic children who have more severe, multiple problems.

Awful places, these comprehensives, dealing with a range of kids appropriately

The parents would need to start saving 15 years before their children are born though , with the cost of living even £100 a month invested for 15 years in a Tax Free ISA AT 2.10 % = £25000 Approx saved!

What I could see is some of the lesser independent schools which are struggling a bit financially, applying to become grammars.

There's an odd blind spot I've noticed quite a bit around this issue that grammar supporters always seem to assume that the person they're speaking to must have a child who would pass! They'll say things like "But the grammar will give wonderful opportunities" without ever thinking that what you're hearing is "Other children will be given wonderful opportunities that my child won't have. How will that disadvantage my child in the future?"

I mean, grammar supporters have spent years campaigning to get these wonderful schools back and telling us how great they are, yet when people ask about those who don't get in they're told "oh, don't worry, the other schools will be just as good" Huhhhh? Those "other schools" being the freshly denuded so-called comprehensives that you've spent years telling us are so bad?

It's a square circle, either grammar schools are going to be better than other schools (which they can't admit because 80% of people won't go to them) or they aren't in which case why bother to re-instate them.

And don't try me on with "different schools for different abilities" please. I will not accept that getting 69% rather than 70% on a one-off exam means you need a "different" education.

Peregrina I think you are spot on about the leak:

twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/773175841949876224

Rob Merrick is Deputy Political Editor at the Independent and seems to think document shows Justine Greening does not want new grammars. Maybe she's trying to show what a s**tstorm its going to create? Also the government seems to want to sneak this through without it being properly discussed in Parliament. It wasn't in the Tory manifesto so its going to have no political legitimacy whatsoever. That gives opponents much freer range to take obstructive measures against it. Headteachers could do a lot here if they can get themselves organised.

By the way, was Angela Rayner good? Can't bear to watch some smug Tory but would be interested to hear an objective opinion from someone brave enough to put themselves through it.