To think that 14 year olds who skip school should be punished rather than adults

[ReallyTired]

Legally parents can end up with a criminal record if their teen fails to attend school. In theory parents can be fined or even sent to jail for children not attending school.

I have been enjoying the break from battles to get my son to school, but I feel sick as September approaches.

There is very little help for the parents' of teens to get them into school. It is not practical to pick him and force him into the car. He is larger and stronger than both his parents. We would probably be done for child abuse if we did man handle him into the car.

My son has refused point blank help offered from CAMHS. He is Gilleck competent yet he is totally insulated from the consequences of his decision not to accept help. There is no possibility of him being punished by the criminal courts. There is no risk of him being taken into care unless his parents are jailed. There is no possibility of him being fined.

I feel that my son should shoulder some responsiblity for attending school. My son knows that he can do whatever he likes and nothing we can do other than deny him all access to all electronics and the Internet. There is no point in grounding him as he never goes out anyway. It does not matter how vile he as the fact that he is under 18 means he is shielded from any consequences unless he breaks criminal law. The law does not see it as the child's responsibility to attend school in any way whatsoever.

I dread the fact that kids now have to be in education or training until 18. Will parents be jailed when their 17 year old teen refuses to attend college? I think it would be fairer to jail the 17 year old.

School refusal is a difficult issue, but it's hard to have sympathy with a teen who is so uncooperative to receiving help. If parents cannot force their child to accept help against their wishes then parents should not be punished.

You have the option to home school - threats of prosecution would stop. I would do this is my DC wouldn't attend.

Have you fully investigated the reasons why he won't go to school? If he has been referred to CAMHS then his level of need presumably was judged to be significant.

Can you home educate him?

Home educate?

If you can't get them out of bed - how are they going to engage in home education?

I really don't know what can be done about these situations but as an ex-teacher (secondary) I have experience of parents making every possible effort to get their children in to school but not succeeding because said children are bigger and stronger than them and absolutely refuse to attend. I always felt great sympathy for the parents.
And yes, in the past the big tough head of boys' PE would turn up banging on the door and escort the miscreant to school - often worked.

Having knocked on doors before.. Often the child will simply lock/barricade themselves in the bedroom and refuse to come out or even speak. Often though, it works.

Finding the time to do these visits however is extremely difficult

What some posters do understand is that many parents beg for help. It really not easy to get an aggressive teen to school on time. My son's school have been understanding and they tell me that I have done everything humanly possible. I have done everything the school has asked.

I feel detentions for lates are counter productive when there is no punishment for not going in at all. It is silly that turning up 30 minutes late is punished but skipping the whole school day isn't. If a school is going to use sanctions it needs to be thought out. The punishment for not coming in at all needs to be worse than the punishment for being late.

With school refusers you need a balance between carrot and stick. If my son goes in before 10am he gets limited internet access after school, but is not allowed his phone or tablet. If there was no carrot I would never get him into school.

With children who are school refusers you need help from an expert. It's like a game of chess. Secondary school is a different ball game to primary. My son is bigger than both his parents.

The idea of home education is ridiculous. I think children with a history of poor attendence should be banned from going down the home education route. I am not against home education, but danger of a school refuser getting no education is high.

my own son went through a period of school refusal and was very unhappy. I home educated till I found a better school more appropriate for his needs, but in all honesty, he learnt so much in his 8 months at home but things HE was interested in. If it wasnt for the social side, I would have been tempted to keep at it.
I dont see whats ridiculous about it?

I know several people with school refusers, and its come down to either they home educate, even basic stuff is better than nothing, or fight for alternative provision, or change schools, but it all depends on why your child is refusing their school. Are they being bullied. Are they getting enough sleep. Are they finding the lessons uninteresting and irrelevent? Are they feeling unheard. What does he want to do with his life

OP - does he give any reasons or indicators?

"parents definitely can be fined in this circumstance, and if they don't pay the fine they could be prosecuted. I know this as I've issued a fine in a very similar circumstance and it had the perfect impact - the child realised the impact on the oarents and started to attend. Prior to that he didn't care and thought it was all empty threats.

What would your son think if legal action was taken against you?"

I don't know what he would think. He probably wouldn't give a shit as we could probably afford the fine without being destitute.

I suppose it depends if the fine was large enough to cause extreme finanical hardship. A fine for non attendence would mean we would have to forgo a family holiday. It would probably hurt his younger sister more.

Is it right to fine cooperative parents who have requested help, attended meetings, been to the parenting courses, organised a referral to CAMHS? There is only so much control that parents have over a teens behaviour. Part of growing up is taking responsiblity for your actions. In the UK we a crazy situation where a ten year old can be criminalised for petty crime, but a 14 year is not expected to take any responsiblity for going to school.

Maybe truanting teens should be forced to do community service instead of fining the parents with the threat of a secure unit if they don't comply. There is no point in fining teens as most of them have no money.

I agree the detention thing sounds silly!

have they fined you?

If you cooperate and are all on the same side with the authorities, I doubt theyd fine you, or be able to

We haven't been fined at all. The threat is definitely there though.

I feel that any criminal system or fines should be there to influence behaviour. The school are reasonably happy with me as I am doing everything asked if me. It's me who is unhappy that my son is not attending school on time.

Bran - they absolutely can. Right or wrong, it's deemed the parents responsibility by law. If there is no disagnosis or any MH concerns or medical condition and he is just refusing, EWS would be well within their rights to issue a penalty notice. Unfortunately legal action and fines can be last resort but they can be really effective.

OP - are you asking for support or just ranting?

So RT they aren't unhappy with you or going to fine you? Really not sure of the motives of your thread - v confusing!

So realistically what do you expect the school to use as a punishment for non attendance if the pupil isn't there?!?!

My child told me this morning they weren't going back to school. It's fine, I'll home school them. I'm not fighting for another year. Their mental health is more important.

My son needs to get good English and maths skills. He would happily learn science, maths, computing and music a home. He would ignore literacy, not be able to learn an MFL and lose out on a whole host of skills school provides. It's irrelevant whether my son likes school. The law says he has to have an education and most professionals would see it as the best place for him to learn.

If a child has mental health issues, but flatly refuses help then they are not helping themselves. Sitting in the room and not engaging with the rest of the whole is never going to help them. Even children with suspected mental illness need to pull themselves together and make the effort to cooperate with CAMHS? If a child refuses help with mental health issues then they should not expect allowances to be made. If they are old enough to extra medical treatment they are old enough to suffer the consequences of not attending school.

There are times when non attendence is the fault of the parent and times when the teen is responsible. I feel the law should recognise that teens have more understanding of the importance of school. A teen

Your last post is really horrible, no a child should not be expected to " pull themselves together".
Refusing medical treatment is a symptom of the mental illness.

OP, I think your attitude towards this problem is probably a large part of it!

I genuinely don't think that many teens understand the importance of school. I certainly didn't and cocked it up royally!

You can not get better from mental illness without support. If an adult or child refuses mental health support then they will never get better. Yes, my son needs to make some effort. At the moment he has lots of rights and no responsiblity.

An adult who refuses mental health support risks losing their job, relationship and children. No one is saying it's easy, but sometimes people with mental illness has to make some effort to get better. Pulling yourself together is impossible without help.

Sometimes people with mental illness benefit from a bit of tough love to make them take that first step.

OP, it sounds as if you have little or no understanding of mental illness and the ways it can affect people. If your posts are a true reflection of your attitude, I feel very sorry for your son. 'Tough love' in this case is not very loving at all.

I'm an education professional and can say without a doubt that school is not the right place for some children to learn.