Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools

[noblegiraffe]

Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools, reports the Telegraph.

This is not a policy announcement, rather a testing of the waters, I suspect.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/06/theresa-may-to-end-ban-on-new-grammar-schools/

"Talk of top sets etc, my friends child is the only child predicted an A in English this year in one of the comprehensive schools mentioned in my first paragraph. So he has no academic peers to be in a set with him. With things this stark it's understandable why the out of town bussing goes on."

My child is one of the few predicted As and A*s in his GCSEs. I think he might be the only one predicted those grades for all subjects.Surprisingly enough, he is not being "dragged down" by the others who are "only" predicted Bs. They all have plenty to discuss and even B students have ideas and insights.

LemonDr1zzle I object to the use of "failure" when it comes to the 11+. I can't believe that any parent would consider their child a failure or let their child consider themselves a failure if they don't gain a place at a grammr school.

Feel free to have a chat with a lot of the parents and children in my local area. My DC was quite upset by that fact that some of their class mates were in floods of tears in school after allocations day.

Noble - I'm not sure it will get through. She has a slim majority, Labour are against it, Lib Dems are against it, and some Tories are too yes that's true. But over 70% of the population are pro-grammar. So they can't be representative.

"But life, childhood and education is not a level playing field."

That is no reason to turn the playing field into a ski slope!

Whatever the wrongs of the old gramnar system, it didn't prioritise rich over poor and enabled greater social mobility. DPs both went to grammar school and were from not very well off or privilged backgrounds where their family were manual workers.

The current system requires tutoring because the level of maths and english required is higher than will have been taught by the end of Y5. Changing the test to one that can be approached by all children without tutoring would help somewhat.

HPFA but the scenarios you're describing are created by adults, the situations arise because the adults choose to bribe or outrageously reward or unthinkingly use thoughtless language.

I could say I failed my Art GCSE. I could say I gained a C because I was super talented. I could say my art skills were rubbish and all I ended up with was a C. All that's changing is perspective, and there's not much of that in this thread, entrenched as we all are

Maybe you should run parenting workshops, LemonDrizzle........you appear to have found a secret people have been hunting for for ages. How to make people who have failed something not feel as if they have failed.

Try as we do, government cannot level the playing field and make the system fair for all

But it can avoid actively making the system even less fair to those who already have the crappy end of the stick. And we are talking about children. How would you feel about deliberately reserving the best NHS hospitals for the wealthiest? A child is in an accident, the ambulance turns up and depending on parental income is either taken to whatever the local offering is, or hurtled off to the hospital with the best consultants? This is state schooling, of course it should be the greatest good for the greatest number.

Dixiechickonhols Talk of top sets etc, my friends child is the only child predicted an A in English this year in one of the comprehensive schools mentioned in my first paragraph. So he has no academic peers to be in a set with him.

You might want to have a chat with some of the parents with DCs at Grammar schools who are predicated all A*/A but come out with lots of Bs & Cs.

Has it not crossed your mind that it could be down to the fact that your friends DC is in a school that gives more realistic predications rather than just tell the parents what they want to hear.

"Whatever the wrongs of the old gramnar system, it didn't prioritise rich over poor and enabled greater social mobility"

I'm afraid it did. Many children didn't go to the grammar school because they couldn't afford the uniform. Or went, but left at 14 because that was what their parents wanted. To give but two examples.

Anecdote is not data.

But over 70% of the population are pro-grammar.

It doesn't matter, it's not going to go to a referendum.

There is the option that May doesn't try to push it through now, but runs a general election campaign with it in the manifesto, then that would give her a mandate at least.

"How exactly does 3 kids out of a huge intake not turning up to their local comp make it into a ski slope for the rest particularly when far more decide to go to other comps deemed as better?"

I think we all agree that superselectives are a different issue.

Would you be prepared to say what LEA you're in?

Better still go and ask people in their 50s and 60s who went to a Secondary Modern why they didn't go to the Grammar School. I would be you that the vast majority would say 'I failed the 11+'. I doubt if any would say 'I was selected for a Sec Mod education'.

I actually knew someone who failed the 11+ and went to Oxford (it's not just a myth!!) and it was clearly part of his psyche. Not someone I knew terribly well so the fact I was even aware of it shows that it was pretty important to him.

Nobel - but the political parties are our representatives. I'm sure there won't be a referendum on this but with over 70% of people wanting more grammar schools then that level of opinion has to be taken into account don't you think? Even if you do disagree.

2StripedSocks You say there is only a handful of super selective,can you list them?

If you are asking due to genuine interest details can be found here, search "super selective":

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=64

My MIl genuinely thought she had put it behind her- then recently discovered that the pass mark was higher for girls in her day and she was told at the time that she "just failed". It really rankled, 60 years later.

I think the thing that would make a child feel a failure - as well as failing the test - would be the discourse you were engaging in, Lemon, about how we must value and prioritise those who pass!

When you got a C in your Art exam, which doors were closed to you? Where did all your friends who got Bs and As go, after that?

but the scenarios you're describing are created by adults, the situations arise because the adults choose to bribe or outrageously reward or unthinkingly use thoughtless language.

But children pick up messages from the world around them! Have you ever seen that famous bit of film from the 50s when a pompous man explains to a little girl that she hasn't really "failed"? That film is famous because it's clearly absurd!! If a child is doing tutoring or practice for an exam (which the vast majority will be) then you can't simultaneously tell them it doesn't matter whether they pass or not. It's a logical absurdity and any 10 year old child will instinctively understand that.

noble in fact I'm agreeing with much of your posts, but tell me how, short of a brutal revolution, we can deny the influence of parental wealth? Isn't it the case even with the NHS that treatment depends on where you live (obviously it shouldn't...)?

It is only outliers who can escape the life they are born into. Grammar schools in this country in the past seems to have offered social mobility for some. They may not do so now. So campaign for the money, any money, to be spent on all schools and all kids.

We're anecdataing like crazy now. But on results day, the checkout woman in Tesco (small town- she's known ds since he was a baby) asked him how he had got on. He told her- and she said "Oh, dear, never mind. You love your football, don't you? They've got quite a good team......."

MumTryingHerBest

Clitheroe is an example of a grammar sitting beside comps. Only 1 grammar school in the area (think there are 3 total in the county) Used to take about 80 from large catchment area now changing to 100 children a year (rest are from out of catchment). People move to Ribble valley for the comprehensives - the 3 comps kids on my estate go to have pass rates of 5 A-C inc English/maths ranging from 66-73%. Comps in town nearby where I work with no grammar school 36-38%. Remove the grammar, some would go private, some to other state selective/grammar out of town. Very few children actually sit the 11 plus it is not compulsory.

'You didn't fail, darling you just didn't pass, and now you're going to a different school'
'But I really wanted to go to the school with the labs and the theatre and my friends!'
'But you can't: you get to go to a school that's just right for you, and your friends get to go to one just right for them!'
'So, they can't go to my school then?'
'Well no, they can if they want, actually'
'So I can go to theirs? We can all choose?'
'No: they can choose because they passed, but you can't because you.... didn't pass'.