Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools

[noblegiraffe]

Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools, reports the Telegraph.

This is not a policy announcement, rather a testing of the waters, I suspect.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/06/theresa-may-to-end-ban-on-new-grammar-schools/

Bert. How do you define in your words what a 'Secondary Modern' is (a definition i hate) A. is it a school that is non selective in a grammar area but achieves 79% GCSE and 5% AAB at A level !.

Alternatively is it a similar school , i mentioned up thread located in a fully comprehensive area.

The term 'Secondary Modern' is an outdated term because it takes in to no account the varieties of schools available today.

Bertrand - thanks for info re: 11+ being optional everywhere. I hadn't realised.

You sound terribly tense responding to me so I won't bother you again.

Bad, but you blamed the poor behaviour on the influx of low achievers from the secondary modern. That's why you said you were in favour of grammars.

Unless you think that low achieved automatically = poor behaviour then surely what you're actually in favour of is merely better behaviour management?

A secondary modern school is a type of school that only exists in wholly selective areas. It is the school where children who do not take or who fail the 11+ go.

It is nothing to do with results. Everything to do with admissions procedures.

And it no more outdated a term than "grammar"

"You sound terribly tense responding to me so I won't bother you again."

Not tense at all. Feel free.

It's true that there are a lot more behaviour difficulties in comprehensives (generally) than at grammars. But that's not due to ability on the whole (although a child unable to read will act out). And it's not due to schools "accepting" bad behaviour. Comps bust a gut to put in place systems and procedures to ensure good behaviour. Largely I would say it is down to the culture of the community and parental support.

Yes, a secondary modern is the school you go to if you don't pass the 11+., where there is an 11+ to be taken. You're right, it's a misnomer as they're not a 'modern' idea - I guess that was meant to indicate that they'd be focussing on 'modern' things like type-writing, Care of Infants, and car mechanics back in the day?

What else would we call them?

They were modern when they were invented!

2striped - can't think of a better reason! Are they going in September? Do you have twins

There probably should be another name for them. But when people use other words - they are usually High Schools in Kent- people misunderstand. Everyone knows what a Secondary Modern is- a high school could be any secondary school.

ridiculous and invented

But then we have a poster saying they are pro grammar because the influx of low achievers into a previous grammar ruined her education with their poor behaviour.

Yes, a secondary modern is the school you go to if you don't pass the 11+., where there is an 11+ to be taken.

So only applies to the few areas where the 11+ is compulsory. I don't see anything in the proposals for the 11+ to be made compulsory nor for grammars in all areas nor for compulsory conversion of comps into sec-mods.

In many towns and cities, a grammar can sit quite happily alongside a range of comps, the 11+ isn't compulsory, parents and pupils can happily ignore the 11+ and just choose from the other comps. It's all a matter of improving choice.

That's why I don't recognise those who complain about a return to sec-mods - that's not the proposal at all. The proposal is simply getting rid of the ban on new grammars. It may not lead to more than a handful of new grammars being created, maybe none at all. It's just lifting the ban so that a new grammar can be built if there's a need, and I assume there will be regulations etc to control who, when and where.

And your "dreadful experience of comprehensives" (presumably some years ago) was nothing to do with the other children there?

In many towns and cities, a grammar can sit quite happily alongside a range of comps

No!! If there are grammars, there aren't comprehensives!

"So only applies to the few areas where the 11+ is compulsory."

No, it applies to the areas which are wholly selective.

TheAlchemist101 Tue 09-Aug-16 11:05:17 DS1 has now been at his GS for 4 years and its not all its cracked up to be.

Unfortunately, I come across few parents who go beyond looking at the numbers on league table.

I found it interesting to see how few people visited the lower ranked selectives and non-selectives compared to the top ranked schools (bear in mind results were given before the school open days).

Every year parents post on the elevenplusexams forum "My DC scored X, are there any schools in the country we can apply to".

The other common occurance is where the parent asks if there are any other DCs who are doing the 2-3 hour each way trip they are planning for their DCs.

They were modern when they were invented!

Yeah, I expressed that badly - that's the problem with the term 'modern' isn't it: it dates so badly!

Funny that because i thought 'Secondary Modern' schools were set up in the 1950s and 1960s to determine the type of education a child would receive.
This means in reality the education the children received at Endeavour High School in Hull indicates a higher resemblance to a Secondary Modern education than Wellington School in Altrincham.

"It's just lifting the ban so that a new grammar can be built if there's a need, and I assume there will be regulations etc to control who, when and where."

So a new grammar is built in a town which currently has, say, 4 comprehensives. The grammar accepts the top 25% of the children who take the 11+.

What happens to the comprehensives?

how was the school able to select the high fliers in maths

I assume that it was done on SATS scores but DD wasn't in it so I wouldn't really know. I think the school did a test on entry as well. After the six month assessment they created "Set 1 B" from those who'd done best which DD went into. I actually think the pace is too fast for her in this set and if she isn't moved down at the start of next year I'll bring it up with the teacher.

2stripedsocks- if you live in a selective area, surely you should get free bus travel to the grammar school?

Badbadbunny In many towns and cities, a grammar can sit quite happily alongside a range of comps

Care to give examples of where this is actually the case, with the exception of the handful of super selectives.