teacher crisis

[supplysam]

New name, I have been reading threads in education for a long time, and really want to put across to some parents what is really going on in our schools.

I've been in schools for 30 years. Not all teachers will have witnessed what I've witnessed, or experienced what I've experienced, but many will have.

I taught for decades. I resigned because the "profession" is now nothing more than slave labour. The normal day is 15+ hours, and many days are longer. fulfilling all the requirements of being a full time teacher simply do not leave time to sleep and eat. Not only that, but you are held over a barrel by ofsted (and school managers) who blame you for the behavior and attitude of students and parents, when you have no control over either. I am not blaming school managers, buy the way, they are often under insane and ridiculous pressure themselves.

As a supply teacher, I walk in at the stat of the day, and walk out at the end, with my job done, and no pressure or expectations at all. The pay is good, and there is no shortage of work.

I am often asked back, I am often BEGGED to take long term positions. This is what happens. I take it, on a day to day basis. When the work load starts piling up, when I find I am spending my family time on irrelevant and rubbishy non educational paperwork, when the attitude of any student becomes something I don't want to listen to, I leave.

The next day, I am in another job, being begged to stay!

I wonder if the OP will be back. She claimed to be on a camping trip until Monday...

"Perhaps someone should remind us that the topic of this thread is "teacher crisis"

Our system of social apartheid in relation to education shapes the character of our schools, makes some of them hideous places to work and learn, and results in those who have power and influence to change things having no personal stakes in reform, because their children are (mostly) educated privately.

It's all relevant.

these children thrown to the wolves!
So instead let all kids be made miserable by the few who have no interest in learning, can't sit still or listen to instructions, are rude and disruptive, instead or removing the latter to do not harm to the majority.
Yeah, that's fair
Sadly, most people never see the damage wrought by the few on the quiet hard-working kids.

Teachers should be recognition for their selfless services. However, anything that can cause a negative effect to the students or school itself, the opposite always happens; it's always "teacher factor".

can't sit still or listen to instructions

Did you miss the bit about SEND or are you ignoring it?

Did you miss the bit about SEND or are you ignoring it?

That doesn't change the point that the majority shouldn't have their education wrecked by the few. Mixed ability classes and large class numbers mean that teachers' time is taken up by very needy students while the rest suffer.

But it's not the state paying twice as much on those children's education, mini It's parents spending their own money.

You could say anything is unfair:
This group of children already get 3 meals a day, warm safe homes, and clean clothes to wear. Yet you still spend twice as much on books for them and give them twice as much help with homework as these other children with chaotic home lives. (More than twice as much in fact)

This group of children have both music lessons and activity holidays, when this other group of children have neither.

It's the same for non-financial advantages:
These parents will not only model good social skills for their children, but also give them many, many more opportunities to practice them than will other parents with poor emotional skills. And since the parents learned from their own family, quality of relationships with their wider family will be skewed in the same direction. Learned social skills have an even bigger impact on the child's future happiness than their education - and there's nothing fair about who gets help to develop them.

And if you want to raise the stakes:
Every minute, children die from drinking unsafe water, and there's plenty of malnutrition in the world. Will you deny your own child food and safe water until every other child in the world has the same opportunities? Will you even deny your child a Christmas present or a day out in order to pay for a mosquito net which could save an unknown child from malaria?

"wrecked by the few"

The point is that it is our failure, both as a society and an education system, to look after these few properly that has a knock-on effect on the education of others.

This is where proposals to somehow 'remove these bad children so that the good ones can learn' are wrong, both educationally and morally - why should we doubly punish those children who, often through no fault of their own but because of their SEN or home circumstances, education and society have so badly let down?

So if a child has a chaotic upbringing, maybe rapidly moved through a series of foster homes, or in a family where addiction affects ability to parent, or through receiving or witnessing domestic violence, or simply through very poor diet and no sleep, and brings the results of that upbringing to school, yes, they will behave differently. Equally, children with ADHD or other SEN / SpLD will behave and learn differently and need specific help. What we as a society SHOULD do is provide sufficient people and resources IN THE CLASSROOM that both these children AND those living without such disadvantages can thrive - the 'time being taken up by needy children while the rest suffer' is because we as a society choose not to fund this properly, so a single teacher has to juggle the needs of all.

[Actually, needy isn't the right word. 'Needy' in terms of demanding excessive teacher attention is, IME, very characteristic of very pampered middle class firstborns. 'Having very significant extra learning needs' and thus actually requiring extra time and resources to make progress is rather different.)

In some secondary schools in some very deprived areas, older pupils will become disengaged from school because they see no hope of employment or advancement however hard they work at school - 3 or 4 generations of entrenched worklessness within that society has an impact. Would 'removing those pupils from the classroom' have any impact at all? No - society has let them down through the environment they have been brought up in, and rather than condemning them to a permanent educational scrapheap, we should be trying to deal with the root cause of the issue, the entrenched worklessness.

Yes, deal with them and address the problems, but outside the classroom, so the rest have a safe place to learn.

How can you deal with them outside the classroom MrsGuy? They need to be in the classroom, that's the point. I agree with everything Teacherwith2kids said.

MrsGuy,

So the people outside the classroom have to
a) deal with the specific issue that the child is facing AND
b) teach them the same content as is being taught inside the classroom?

If the child is removed from the classroom, they no longer access the TEACHING they need (they may get support, but without expert teaching it isn't going to move them forward educationally)

Instead what is needed is
a) Specifically trained support inside the classroom to support the child to overcome their specific learning needs and to enable them to access the teaching from the teachers
b) A fully-integrated network of support outside the classroom to deal with the things that make the child as they are, but don't need the child in front of them to do their work (social workers, experts in specific SEN, local and national government strategists, medical professionals, addiction experts...)

Yes, different schooling is sometimes needed - one of the best models I have seen is a secondary school with several Special Schools co-located on the same site, allowing for flexibility of movement between the different sections of the site according to the child's needs - but a blanket removal of all children with difficulties from the classroom is not the answer.

teacherwith2kids for PM!

Or at least for education secretary!

As a parent I am impressed by what I see here in our town in NJ, USA. We start school here at 3. Class size is 15 for preK 3 and 4. For kindergarten class size is 25 with 2 teachers. After that maximum class size is 15.

We have about 70% of kids in our school district on FSMs. The test results are not good and the school board have decided to change the structure of aftercare. Next year they are offering free aftercare. Teachers are expected to stay to complete homework time. If homework club is completed the kids can pick an activity to do. Options are Spanish, chess, dance, soccer, robotics, boom (chemistry experiments), theatre etc. if they don't behave during homework club they go to the library to finish their work.

Yes this costs money and spend per pupil is $20k per year. It's more than what private schools charge and IMO it's a better education.

Rather than focusing on how unfair it is that private schools have so many more facilities, I think we need to be asking why, as a society, we don't make an investment in the education of our young. There shouldn't be a huge gap in facilities between private and state schools.

As to teachers, well dd is 4. I don't like her teacher this year but that is between me and the teacher. As far as my Dd is concerned she needs to do as her teacher tells her to do. I think I'm the only parent who backs up the teacher.

I also think teachers have created a rod for their own back through union action over the past decade. Also, I've said this before, so many teachers in the UK just don't look professional when going to work. The teachers here are wearing jackets with trousers or skirts with a shirt or she'll top and wouldn't dream of wearing legging style trousers. Some of the teachers I see going into school don't help themselves when it comes to parents respecting them.

You can take a hike with your comment about teachers needing to dress better if they want the respect of parents. I teach secondary and do wear a dress and jacket as standard. My sister teaches 5 year olds. A jacket and skirt would be highly unsuitable.

The teachers at my DTD's excellent primary wear joggers and hoodies a lot of the time. They're school branded and so the HT clearly approves.

And as for teachers being expected to stay to supervise homework... I choose to run activities after school, as do many of my colleagues. If the government decided it was compulsory for teachers to run homework clubs after school, that would likely exacerbate the teacher crisis (the subject of this thread) not help it.

Yup same. Very smart unless it's drama lesson day (when heels are not really appropriate). And I give up a huge amount of my 'spare' time for the students (support and enrichment).

DoctorDonna no heels for drama? I teach drama full time and I always wear heels. Clearly I'm way more professional than you

I can barely walk in heels! Drama lesson day is DM shoes with orthotic insoles (I'm so cool).

The teachers here get paid extra to stay after 3:15pm. Also it does matter what you wear. DDs teachers standard dress is a pair of tailored trousers and a knitted top. Shoes are a pair of flats. My point is that teachers don't help themselves with parents when what they first see is a teacher wearing a pair of leggings, a tunic top and sneaks. I think it also sets the wrong tone in the classroom in later year.

I would like to see teachers have a 8-5 workday and employed all year round so they can do admin during the holidays. I'm also horrified to hear that marking is input into spreadsheets etc. Total waste of a teachers time. If it needs to be done hire a data entry clerk.

Also I'm the last person to complain about the spend per pupil in our town. Other towns spend far less and get better results. The reason is because parents tutor heavily and you don't have the poverty.

Want2bSupermum, I used to live in NJ as a child. It was long time ago, but NJ was one of the most richest state in US, getting lots of tax money from foreign companies and rich people who works in NY but decide to live there for better environment. I thought my experience there was not real truth from elsewhere in other struggling state in US.

I believe the point was that we don't recognise the slovenly dress you mention. The only teachers who aren't 'office smart' are the games department and they wear suits for parents' evening. In fact, I'm dreading replacing my teacher wardrobe for going back. I've been on mat leave this year and will struggle to afford new clothes for me.
I stay late for no extra money. I believe some (not all) independents do pay for extra curricular, my head of department's old school did. The students think we get paid extra for doing extra we don't.
Well, I did get an honorarium one year for taking on an extra extra when another teacher left and I was already over 'allocation'.

Want2be - are you aware of the subject of this thread? Suggesting that teachers work 8-5 all year round is hardly addressing the crisis in recruitment and retentionof teachers in England.

Want2b,

In term time, i leave home at 7.30 am and get home around 6 pm, then do around 2-3 hours' further work at home. When i was full time, I also worked around 6 hours, sometimes more, each Sunday.

So in term time I worked, as a full time primary teacher, a 71 hour week for 39 weeks a year. 2769 hours, assuming no work during any of the holidays (!). I am pretty typical amongst my peers wherever I have worked.

8-5 is a 9 hour day, 5 days a week, so say a 47 week year as 'all year round? 2115 hours.

So an 8-5 pm working day year round would a) significantly reduce my annual working hours but sadly b) not get the work done.

I wear clothes suitable for my working day. If I am teaching PE, i wear PE uniform, as the children are expected to. If the day includes lots of DT or art or practical Science, I will wear trousers, long sleeved T-shirts and a cardigan or jumper. Every day contains quite a lot of time kneeling or sitting on the carpet, reading or teaching with children sitting below me, etc, so trousers or tunic dresses with boots and leggings are much more practical than skirts and tights, especially for playground duty in the world's windiest playground....