teacher crisis

[supplysam]

New name, I have been reading threads in education for a long time, and really want to put across to some parents what is really going on in our schools.

I've been in schools for 30 years. Not all teachers will have witnessed what I've witnessed, or experienced what I've experienced, but many will have.

I taught for decades. I resigned because the "profession" is now nothing more than slave labour. The normal day is 15+ hours, and many days are longer. fulfilling all the requirements of being a full time teacher simply do not leave time to sleep and eat. Not only that, but you are held over a barrel by ofsted (and school managers) who blame you for the behavior and attitude of students and parents, when you have no control over either. I am not blaming school managers, buy the way, they are often under insane and ridiculous pressure themselves.

As a supply teacher, I walk in at the stat of the day, and walk out at the end, with my job done, and no pressure or expectations at all. The pay is good, and there is no shortage of work.

I am often asked back, I am often BEGGED to take long term positions. This is what happens. I take it, on a day to day basis. When the work load starts piling up, when I find I am spending my family time on irrelevant and rubbishy non educational paperwork, when the attitude of any student becomes something I don't want to listen to, I leave.

The next day, I am in another job, being begged to stay!

[catkind]

NewLife, the school you are talking about is a highly selective specialist school. Surely lack of real behavioural issues is more to do with the pool of kids and their huge desire to be in that school? (Aso what are their class sizes like?)
The kids there are hugely motivated and focussed on their specialist skill. That carries over into the rest of their school life at least to some degree. Even in my bogstandard comp, the dedicated musicians/sporty kids/dancers/actors or anything else like that, they were never the problem.

[KleineDracheKokosnuss]

If private schools didn't exist in this country you'd still have the same problems as the kids of those who maybe could make a difference (such ad politicians and those rich enough to have real leverage) would be shipped off to board overseas, or return to homeschooling in the form of governesses etc. Those who couldn't afford those options would mostly move elsewhere or homeschool.

State schools need the ability to kick out the trouble makers, to enforce detentions etc. They also need proper funding. And to highlight and celebrate academic successes of students. Without that, nothing will change.

[catkind]

Well yes, i imagine with even the least motivated kids, halving he class sizes would make rather a big difference. I still suspect that the kids with worst behavioural issues do not end up in private schools. And if they do don't get to stay there. My comp inherited the kids who'd been expelled from the local private schools, and they were not the most disruptive ones by a very long shot once there.

[minifingerz]

"There are poor people like me and even poorer at dd school"

Yup - pretty much EVERY poor but very talented child in my dc's rough state primary has been sniffled via a bursary to bring glory on the private sector.

Because you know, really successful, clever, well supported children NEED the charity of the private sector, and the struggling children who would really benefit from a calm learning environment, small classes, stable staff and individual attention - well, the private sector isn't interested in them, is it? It's charity only extends to children who are already succeeding at a high level.

Schools are communities and children learn from each other. State schools are further impoverished by the loss of the brightest and most successful children to the private sector. It also justifies not improving state provision for music and sport learning at a very high level. Why should they bother when the private sector can dish out bursaries, to children who - let's face it - are NEVER the most disadvantaged, regardless of parental income.

Every single child I know who has a bursary for a private school has got at their back a hugely supportive parent/parents, who are often themselves highly educated and very bright.

Honestly - please don't try to suggest that the current system is fair on all children because a few bright kids who can't afford full fees get subsidies.

[minifingerz]

Dream - you mean bursaries are frequently available for children who are not high achieving on the basis that they're not thriving at state school?

[minifingerz]

"Supportive I am but not educated."

I didn't say "all" parents of children with bursaries are well educated, just most. And they are all highly supportive.

[MrsGuyOfGisbo]

minfingerz - you have said that your DD was disruptive throughout her schooling. That must have been utterly miserable for her classmates and teachers. That would not have been tolerated in an independent school. So why should it be acceptable for her to remain in a state school? There should be the means to remove children form state schools if they ruin the education for others, despite a fixed amount of interventions from teachers and others. If they get no education - too bad - they'll have a life on benefits at a cost to the taxpayer, but a lesser cost than the wasted opportunities for all the others kids in the classes they disrupt.

[FannyGlum]

I've taught in private and state. I would honestly say the main difference is supportive parents. If you ring them and tell them something is up, they do something. Class sizes a bit, but also the time. I had 6 non contact hours a week in the private school as an ordinary teacher. Loads of prep and marking time. And I spent that time planning and marking, not chasing up endless failed detentions, no shows and the like. Or filling in bloody spreadsheets or analysing data. Private schools don't make you do any of that nonsense.

[EvilTwins]

Bringing independent schools into this is irrelevant. Private schools have powers that state schools do not. Child not behaving/not making progress/not fitting in - very easy to ask them to leave.

And do not under-estimate the impact of class sizes. I was missing half my yr 9 class the other day as they were involved in a science event. Best lesson all year - having 16 in the room rather than 29 made a HUGE difference.

[catkind]

Dreams, that's what I meant - the kids who came from the private school, even if they came by reason of being expelled, were above average for behaviour at state comp. Which makes me think the bottom quartile either private school simply wouldn't be on the radar for them or their families, they wouldn't get in, or if they did they wouldn't last a term. I think mostly the former.

[NewLife4Me]

EvilTwins

I totally agree about class size and mentioned this in my post above, but it isn't only private schools that have small classes.
My ds1 attended the worst ever school in our area, nobody wanted it and hardly anybody went. They had very small class sizes but it didn't make a jot of difference they still needed sniffer dogs and Police in school permanently.
There were still muggings, stabbings and the school featured regularly on the news.

mini
My dd doesn't get a bursary, nobody approached us, my dd found the school herself and wanted to audition. Bursaries are totally different to MADS and managed completely differently.
Anybody can apply to dd school if they want to audition and most come from state schools.
I am educated now, but I didn't have as much as a GCSE from leaving school to my mid thirties.

[Gfplux]

Dream girl,
How do these parents pay

[NewLife4Me]

Dream

There were some 6th formers suspended and i think one eventually excluded for drinking on site, late back, drugs, etc.
Their parents were paying too, obviously i'm not sure how much.
I've told dd a whiff of this when she is older and it's game over.
It's not many but considering such a small school, quite shocking.

Had our older two had such chances I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have messed up.

[FannyGlum]

But what about the kids who do those things but the parents don't care? And can't or won't pay?

And the thing is it isn't the big events so much as the constant low level disruption. And the pressure. I'd go back into teaching with the same behaviour if you took all the other crap away, the data analysis, moving of goal posts, performance related everything. But as it is I wouldn't be a teacher again at the moment if you paid me £1million a year. Because it wouldn't be worth the stress and the effect on my health.

[mercifulTehlu]

Yy FannyGlum - you can tell how goddamn awful all the other crap in teaching is, by the fact that you don't actually hear teachers moan about behaviour as much these days. It's bad, but it almost pales into insignificance compared with the other drawbacks of the job atm.

[NewLife4Me]

Dream

I totally agree.
My dd struggles a bit, especially with maths.
Her teachers are amazing and have helped her so much that she went from 4% to an estimated high 60's which teacher said was average mark.
She didn't complete the test and lied to leave the room.
Instead of punishing her they spoke to her and built her confidence and have put strategies in place to support her organisation weaknesses too.
She's still exasperating but they really like her, she's kind and respectful, really means it when she says sorry, and can come up with the goods when she needs to.
All she needs to do now is think in front a bit, plan, manage her time, and a zillion other things.
They have their phones with them at all times as their timetable is live. Not conducive to dd lack of time keeping.
Obviously in an academic class they can't use them and they don't. They also have them at night.

[minifingerz]

"Bringing independent schools into this is irrelevant."

It's not.

The government pushing through policies which are destroying teacher morale have vanishingly few mps with children at state schools.

[leccybill]

Very good point mercifulTehlu - in my 12 years, the one thing that hasn't changed much is the kids. In fact, they are the only part of the job I like, behaviour and all.

I left in July, went on supply, did day to day for two terms (brill but doesn't pay the bills) and now in a long term in a really lovely ex-grammar high school, rated RI as it is 'coasting' apparently but it's fab - great sparky kids, good behaviour, strong teaching, high morale...but I'm getting out in July. I went back to see if it was the job itself or the school I was in - it's the job, I've just lost patience for all the crap. All the little things have worn me down. I want to take my skills, my resilience, my 'working under pressure at 100mph' ethic elsewhere out of teaching.

[EvilTwins]

mini - I totally agree with you there, but useful discussion on this thread has disappeared into praise of the wonders of independent education which is irrelevant.

Independent schools are not the reason teaching is in crisis.