Help Please? Anyone's D got into Haberdashers or NLCS at 4+?

[funkychic]

My D is will be going for the 4+ 'play group' asesssment at Habs and NLCS. I'm desparate to know what they ask them to do. Really need advise from all mums whose child are already in these schools. Pleeeeeeaaaassse help!!!

At last, xenia. I honestly agree with a lot of what you say on most topics and can see now where you are at with your last post on this topic area.

This thread is making me a little paranoid.
My two nt children are at selective independent schools , my son with asd is at a special school.
But my DS1 wants to do research into autism and work in that field when he gets his qualifications and i support inclusion in education for parents of sn children who it.
So I should have my feet in one camp or other but can't quite see it in those terms.

So am I weird or is the truth that we all just try to get the best for our children in whatever guise we see that as being achieved. And that the only real discord on this thread is created by those who want what is best for their children wilfully at the expense of others?

I think you're right, pagwatch. For me it's the assumptions made about children with sen and the downright nasty comments from belladonna about children with sen that annoyed me.

I think that issue of inclusion is complex. There are a wide range of special needs and some can be included more easily than others.

The question is whether the child can cope with a normal curriculum and school environment. For example my little boy is hard of hearing, he has digital hearing aids and his classroom has a soundfield system. Academically he is having no problems keeping up with the rest of his class.

Similarly children with mobility difficulties, visual impairment can do well in mainstream schools with the right support.

However there are children who really NEED special schools. For example the children at the special school I work at have learning difficulties. They need a substantially different curriculum to the mainstream child. For example there are 15 year old children who cannot spell their own name or have severely limited speech. The school I work at also has a unit at a pychriatic hospital so that children who are unfortunate enough to be hospitalised with severe mental illness can still get an education. (In fact some of the children in this unit get VERY high A-level results.)

It is important that children with SEN are given a suitable education for THEM. The best placement for a child needs to be decided on an indvidual basis. It should not be some kind of appartate like how South Africa was.

pagw, it depends on the need but I htink the best help for some conditions like dyslexia is in the private system not the state system, schools like those Ruth Kelly etc use.

I also think some of the better help for other SNs can be in the private sector too but I haven't researched it all so probably am not qualified to say. Also some children have really thrived in some schools for teh blind in a way I am not so sure they would in a school where everyone is sighted but I've never reall had to deal with these issues as the mild dyslexia etc we dealt with was nothing very much.

ALso if had a child with a particularly low IQ I think I'd want even more than for the clever ones to find them a really good all round private school so we could bump up their life chances, contacts, sports or whatever talents they had in the private sector.

There are a fair number of private special schools where a lot of children are paid for with statements from their local authority. Unfortunate most local authorities will do anything to avoid sending a child to a private special school.

Most special schools whether they are state or private are very specialist. For example the Moderate learning diffculties school I work at does not take children with really severe behaviour problems.

It is important that a special school fits a child like glove. Otherwise the school will be worst than useless.

There is more to education that GCSE results. It was lovely watching the kids at my school being in their christmas concert. A child with major SEN would never get the chance to take a main role in a play in a normal school.

I think that state special schools have far more automony than a standard mainstream school. They only approximately follow the national curriculum.

It is a totally different world to habs or NCLS. The emphasis at many special schools is on life skills rather than necessary GCSE results.

Yes, of course. The difficult thing for parents like I am where 100% of everyone in the family for a few generations has been at university even if not Oxbridge etc etc is to accept a child who isn't going to have the life you perhaps expect it might but I know last night at dinner my daughter was reminding me of her outings with my late mother who regretted so much that my sister (who had down's syndrome) died as a baby. Everytime she saw a mother out with her downs child she wished that were here so I hope all of us even where we have reasonably high expectations for our children can accept them all for how they are and find them the best education for that child.

xenia can you answer a question that always fazes me what is the differece between a independant school and a state school. thanks

An independent school is one you pay for unless your children are funded through scholarships. They do things differently there - what differently and how differently depends on the type of school you choose.

A state school is free.

Was that what you were asking? Was there a deeper question or motive in there that I should have understood?

no just wondered. dd goes to an independant school and I was never sure of the difference. thought as seing as i might end up as a govenor it might help if I knew.

In the UK private schools are independnet schools and you pay fees. Public schools are also private and independent schools but not all private schols are the traditional "public schools" which tended to be boarding and mostly for boys like Harrow. In the US I think the word public school means the complete opposite of what it does in the UK which is even more confusing.

Perhaps fee paying school is a better word.

Ok I resent the fact that people seem so angry about me simply stating what many MANY people feel.
For the record, I am not, and was never refering to conditions such as down's syndrome, deafness, blindness, severe autism etc
I am talking about conditions which do exist but fall into a shadowy grey area. Namely ADHD, ADD, ODD and, in some respects aspergers.
Children with these conditions are more likely to be disruptive in a class setting than other children. That is a fact. Before you pounce I know there are exceptions to every rule so don't bother to tell me all about your darling adhd child.
I spent christmas with my extended family which includes several doctors (including a child Psychiatrist) , teachers, a psychologist and a nurse.
ALL of them without exception agreed that they wouldn't want their offspring in a class at school with children with the aforementioned conditions. All of them agreed that such labels are used to excuse bad parenting. Again I'm not saying all adhd children are the product of inadequate parenting but some are. Again it is a fact.
You have to consider where were these conditions 50 years ago?
My 81 year old grandmother was a GP, she said she could count on one hand the number of children suffering from 'hyperactive child syndrome' what is now known as adhd.

Batten down the hatches!

Oh oh

My my.
hmm
Maybe your extended family just wanted to get on with having a festive christmas without having you ear bashing them. Saying "of course you're right darling" in a soothing manner.
It's one thing to say that you'd prefer your children educated in a homogenous, condition-free environment. I disagree with that, but hey.
Another thing completely to suggest that parents of some children with special needs are at fault. Quite another thing, inflammatory and plain insulting.

Actually several members of my family clearly had and have aspergers now but their odd habits were always put down to eccentricity. Sadly as aspergers hadnt been 'discovered' when my brother was a child there was no where for my mother to go to get help.

No point in saying any thing else about your post really..

Mmm, I am a teacher and my son was and is educated in schools with children with said conditions. I expect your family just didnt want to get in to a detailed discussion over christmas with you as your hardly open to considering you might be wrong.

I can't believe that Belladonna is persisting in defending her poisonous views.
Thank goodness that she is able to buy her way out of educating her children in an inclusive school which includes interaction with SN children. This means that there is one less narrow minded, opinionated bigot to which my DS is likely to have to be exposed to.

Children with those types of SN have always been around. There just wasn't a name for it back then.

I also don't understand the insinuation that if a nurse, Child Psych and a teacher says something then it must automatically be right. Teachers are given very little training and information about SN. A nurse is unlikely to have much specialist training in ADHD, ADD etc - especially if they are someone who thinks that those conditions don't exist! Doctors too will only have a great knowledge of those areas if they have either chosen to specialise in those areas of medicine or if they have a lot of personal experience. Sorry but your attempts to justify your opinions by saying "My Aunt Josephne says so and she's a nurse so it must be true" are feeble to say the least.

There were more special schools in the past than there are now. In the past people did not meet many children with ADHD/ severe aspergers/ behavioural issues. They certainly existed but the more extreme ones were put into reform schools. (Effectively child prisons...)

Also I think there was a better release for excess energy for boys. I find it shocking that the majority of the children at the moderate learning difficulties school I work at are boys. Do boys really on average have a lower IQ than girls or is the problem that many boys find the national curriculum girly and uninspiring.

In particular boys are not allowed be boys without a huge telling off. My son is not allowed to play football at breaktime. He gets told off for making a toy gun out of twigs or playing power rangers.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of boys with special needs compares with the percentage of girls who have special needs in private schools.

Being a doctor or a child psyciatrist doens't exempt one from being ignorant about SN. I had a GP tell me that all kids with quadraplegic cerebral palsy were 'retarded'. Nice word there. GP was talking out of arse of course and didn't realise how ignorant he was.
My son has Aspergers syndrome yet MIL who is a teacher is still in denial about it. She blames his behaviour on the fact that he has a disabled sister. Not a bad mind-twister given his sister was born 3 years ago yet he was disagnosed with ASD over 8 years ago.
Aspergers is not a 'shadowy gret area' but a recognised condition with genetic tendencies.

I don't think many people feel this way Belladonna. You are possibly ina minority of disablist people. Maybe you should explore your rather bigoted views? What would you do if one of your children turned out to have SN or your grandchildren?
Maybe some disability equality training,mmmm?

Belladonna
um - the numbers of children with ASd is massively on the rise. In the 80's the numbers were considered to be approx 1 in 10,000 ( those are i think the numbers also quoted at the end of rainman).
estimates now suggest that it may be as high as 1 in 100. I can't give an accurate number as i don't really give a toss.
But when my DS was diagnosed ( he is profoundly affected) most people I spoke to had no idea wha autism was or how it affected you. Now i can't go anywhere without people saying "oh yes, my DS, cousin, friends boy has that".
If the numbers are broadly accepted to be rising in this communication disorder why not in other ( and indeed related) conditions ?
Did any of your relatives explain that one to you?
As ADD ADHD etc are often seen in association with ASD it would actually be a bit weird if the incidences of ADD etc WEREN'T rising...
As for the all encompassing wisdom of the medical profession.... there are thousands of brilliant and devoted Dr's and nurses and physicians of all sorts outr there. Having worked for many years in the field of medical malpractice there are also a fair few knobs who could not find their bums with a torch and a compass.
I wonder which group you are broadly related too.

The exception to the rule is the badly bahaved kid whose parents 'plead' ADD. The sad truth is more painful