tell me about a 'privileged' education

[Frostycake]

If you attended a grammar or private school or if you teach in one (or taught in one), tell me what I may have missed by having a comprehensive education in the 1980s.

I sometimes see glimpses of the education I could have had if circumstances had been different for my parents (the recent TV series on Harrow, meeting and working with people who went to Oxford, Cambridge, Malvern College etc.) and I often wonder what it is I missed out on apart from the obvious opportunities and overflowing confidence and maturity this type of education seems to instill in pupils.

Come and talk to me about the detail as I'm bursting with curiosity.

My DH went to a secondary modern and he says that he would not and could not torture our daughter in that way. He thinks only 5 or 6 actually made it to University in a year of over 120 pupils. The lunatics in his school would actually try to stab you with a compass or throw a chair at you. They bully the weak and disturb the clever.

I don't think that occurs as much in private.

Although I have heard of it happening.

These are deeply interesting accounts of the wide range of upbringing amongst our peer group (parents with dependents at home).

The bit that is worrying me is the assumption that what worked/didnt work for you 30(?) years ago will be the same now. Especially the idea that comprehensive would be a dreadful experience. So much has changed, no least the teachers, pupils and framework.

Equally, people with a private education assume this is the only option for their children.

Whatever your experience is, it is irrelevant today. We all need an open mind.

As I have said before, the worst case of bullying I have ever come across happened in a very well regarded prep school and went on in an even better regarded public school.

It would be very shortsighted and foolish of me to use that to judge an entire sector.-I'm sure everyone would agree. However it seems to be considered perfectly reasonable for people to use one bad experience to condemn the entire state sector.

MN many of us have very relevant experience of current state schools even if our DC don't attend them.

I visit lots as part of my work. I'd be surprised if I didn't have more direct current experience than most MNers.

You might, word, but you are the exception that proves the rule. Most people base their judgements on their own experience, or that of people of their generation or older.

And anyone who tries to say anything positive about state education is automatically disbelieved. Very odd.

Yes, it is a fascinating thread. Why did I think I could achieve anything in my small private school where about the same number of girls went to university as in the sixth form college/comprehensive as Overflowingwith? Why did I cycle to the library to look up information about universities and entrance scholarships and have the school set up the exams for me? My parents were totally uninvolved in that. Why did I know to look at that up and work hard in the sixth form and others might not? I don't think we can really say it was the school in my case although I am sure despite the lack of academics it was better than the local state schools so it certainly played a role. I did ask the head if I could sit for Oxbridge and she said as i was a year young a school I could not and I suppose I could have pushed it or after A levels applied.

It may well be the difference in parents between Overf and me that made part of the difference - I am from a line of hard working feminists.

I haven't found a single connection has helped me or my 3 oldest children get jobs although I am sure things like exam results, reliability, good English (two are lawyers), ability to talk to others helped. You only get your foot in the door in most good jobs with really good exam results. After that those other things then matter and it's very hit and miss what matters to one interviewer compared with another. Can you work with those people who will be in the team and will they like to have you in it and how to recruiters stop people recruiting people "like them" which can exclude some of the most talented who happen not to be [ whatever you are like].

I am the oldest child. Position in family has an impact. The oldest tends to do the best. There are lots of studies on that although of course there are some exceptions.

By the way I am not paying school fees because 30 years ago that led to XYZ outcomes. I am paying because I can afford it and it's not a huge struggle to do so and I prefer the schools even though in London we have vast choice from those inner London comps which have been doing so well compared to how they used to due to Teach First etc to the various grammars never mind C of E and Catholic schools.

I am sure most of us know people at work who have done well from comprehensives. It is just that if you can pay fees and want to then why not?

But hak you don't have any direct experience of current comprehensives or independent schools but you feel qualified to form an opinion.

There's no law against it!

Hakulyt has special insight into the 'real world' which places her opinions and experiences at a much loftier level than the rest of us .

Of course there's no law against it! But at least I have close family members and friends currenly at or recently left both comprehensive and private schools. (and HE too- I have a worryingly large family!) I can back up what I say with actual current real life examples.

"Hakluyt has special insight into the 'real world' which places her opinions and experiences at a much loftier level than the rest of us smile."

Sigh. Thanks for that constructive and insightful remark!

Oh come on hak do you really think parents who send their DC to private schools don't know anythig about state schools? That they don't have any friends, neighbours, relatives that use state schools?

The reality is that they know as much as you. They've just reached a different conclusion.

Cream always rises to the top! But then s**t floats too!

I'm sorry Hakulyt I can't help but smile sometimes at the tone of your posts (rather than the content)

The most famous Hakluyt was educated at Westminster. It was probably a free education back then (in the 1560's).

I wonder if the mumsnet Hakluyt sees herself as the equivalent for state schools rather than North America.

Actually, Hakluyt was a scholarship boy- despite coming from a privileged middle/upper middle class background. They were working the system even then.............

Leaving the rather bizarre attacks on Hak aside, I do think quite a lot of people (a) make assumptions about comps (b) are thoroughly in favour of academic selection as long as their kids get in.

Are you all going to be rude about me now, too?

Jilly I wonder too about that difference between us.
How did you get your aspiration in the first place- was it from your feminist family members? (In which case good on them!) And where did you get the idea of university being a way to succeed later in life?
Did you have much a sense of yourself as a potentially capable adult in the making, when you were young?
Or at least that you would need to be able to take care of yourself in future... So you might as well do that via a job you were interested in and might pay decently and give you some satisfaction..?

At that age I just wasn't really allowing myself to see that one day I could do something more ambitious than wherever I was drifting towards.

It's interesting looking back on it and all of these posts about women's different experiences of school.

I do believe (though mine aren't at secondary yet) that schools have in general improved a lot from those days - it seems that there was very little sense of standardisation or a minimum you could expect from a school back then. And I hope that schools and parents would now be a lot more able and willing to deal with issues like bullying etc than in previous decades.

I am in favour of selection. Lots of private schools take anyone. Most areas with enough prosperity for a good few parents to pay fees have schools where the very clever children go and those where those who aren't so bright go. Private schooling is not all about educating the very bright by any means. That does not necessarily make it "comprehensive" but nor are those private schools where those not bright enough for the more academic private schools sink schools.

On these threads we always come to the same conclusion - plenty of parents are happy with state schools so let them go forth and use them and plenty of women earn enough to pay school fees and happy with what they buy so we're all happy and that's great.

motherinferior lighten-up, Hakluyt is great and is a much needed contributor on here. Does n't mean that I take all her comments as 'constructive and insightful' .

Oh I see, it was one of those comments you can retract by shouting JOKE! Silly me.

I think my 1980s 'Modern' was worse than the ones mentioned. I do not know anyone from my school year (1990) who made it to University. The height of success was a hairdressing course at the local FE college !.

Of the 20 people who went to my school , I can think off 5 ended up in prison 2 had kids at 16 3 have never worked 1 robbed my parents business when working there . The other 9 people are as such 5 are married 2 work part time at supermarkets 1 is a pub manager and the other one has just been made redundant after 20 years.

This is the real story for the majority of state educated pupils 'humdrum' lives They are just getting by. It is incorrect to paint another vision of potential success for such kids it is an illusion not based on reality but myth .

I'm a governor at our local state primary school and all the governors are amazed at what good work goes on there, it is so very different from their primary school days. This leads them to the conclusion that state schools are wonderful. What they don't know is that the prep school down the road is doing all this and more. More sport/drama/dance/singing/music/art/trips and at a much higher level.

"I am in favour of selection. Lots of private schools take anyone."

Really? Tell me more.

"What they don't know is that the prep school down the road is doing all this and more. More sport/drama/dance/singing/music/art/trips and at a much higher level."

Of course they are - they have lots more money! aggggggggggggghhhhhhh!