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Original poster

Would you be happy if you child was allocated a place at a senior school that........

116 replies

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 23/10/2006 16:53

had these statistics

% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2002 26%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2003 24%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2004 27%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2005 19%

I have a few friends whose older children go to the school these stats are taken from (found them as a result of the thread elsewhere on MN today about siblings and schools). I was really shocked at how bad those sound - yet some of my friends were really pleased when their children got places at this school!!

The next 'best' school local to be had 46% getting A-C in 2005, and the 'best' had 58% for the same period........the school I hope to get DS1 into when he's old enough averaged out at 88% for the last 5yrs

How can people actually be happy with schools like that - I'm genuinely shocked that parents can settle for such poor school and not demand improvements!

OP posts:
Tortington · 23/10/2006 16:54

i am honetly not wanting to be facaetious but there us rarely choice in the matter.

Original poster
HRHQueenOfQuotes · 23/10/2006 16:57

I know - but how can parents sit there and be happy that their child is going to a school that is so appalling???? And how on earth can all those sodding Blairites sit there and say how wonderful the labour party has been for educaiton when there are schools like that around??? What happened to his "Education, Education, Education" crp he speeled out in 1997 when he won in convincing style??? Makes me so bl*dy angry.

OP posts:
coppertop · 23/10/2006 17:03

Perhaps some parents prefer their children to be at schools where exam results aren't the be-all and end-all? Or maybe they don't have any choice in the matter?

My 2 boys are only in primary school but I think the fact that their school is nowhere near the top of a league table is actually a good thing. I don't know how I'll feel when they're at secondary school though.

Tortington · 23/10/2006 17:03

i agree completely but the fake choice thing really fucks me off - legue tables no one can do a dam thing about - legue table created to cause frustration

whats the point?

and my twins are sitting sats in 3rd year of senior school - i tell my dd ( who is educationally minded)it doesnt matter the school is being assessed not her.

and she says " yes it does. my gcse classes for next year will be streamed based on the results and i am so rubbish in exams "

and is in a complete tiz about it.

that was off subject a little. but i am completely with you in the GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR stakes

foxinsocks · 23/10/2006 17:05

there is no element of choice here in London

you go where there are places and if there are no places at your nearest school, you end up wherever the LEA find you one

Flamebat · 23/10/2006 17:09

Custy

I don't want my DC to worry too much about grades... was raised to believe that you just need the grades to get you on the next rung of the ladder. You need 5 cs for the a levels you want, then don't stress trying to get As if you don't want to.

BUT - I would worry that the lower grade acheieving schools are like it because they just have shoddy teaching.

heifer · 23/10/2006 17:18

have to say that those results seem awful..

Our local school (my old one in fact) is average around 48% which I thought was really bad...

We are planning to move away for this reason.

I am not academic, and realise that there other many more factors to be taken into the equation when deciding on schools for DD (she is only 2.10) but exam results must surely be among them...

I only came out with 2 olevels, have gained more since, and yes I did ok, ended up with a very well paid responsible job...

But, it is about choice, with better results come more choice...

if DD is clever (or even average) I would like her to be surrounded by people of similar abilities, etc. I do not want her to be in the minority. I want her to be with other people that will make her want to question things etc, not be embarassed that she doesn't fit in etc.

I was lucky, I was good at sport therefore found that I fitted in with most people.. And if really intelligent I learnt to keep my mouth shut.... and bluff my way through the conversation ...

So bottom line, no, exam results aren't everything, but they are important...

If on the other hand, DD turns out to be below average, then we would look for a school that offered things she was interest/good at...

Also agree that not everyone (well hardly anyone it seems) can pick the 1st choice school, but I would think that if the schools in your area are soo bad that you would consider moving???

Although, of course understand not everyone is in the financial position to do so...

Original poster
HRHQueenOfQuotes · 23/10/2006 18:06

but if these schools had anything else going for them it wouldn't be too bad - but they don't - they just 3 really poor schools - and the only ones in our town!

OP posts:
beckybraAAARGHstraps · 23/10/2006 18:10

46% and 58% A-C isn't bad at all. You need to look at the intake. I taught at a school that had 45% A-c, and we had a lot of children who got all A*. We also had a lot of children who didn't. And never would. You need to look at how children who are like your child do at that school. Incidentally, our A level results were in the top 50 in the country. We just had a VERY comprehensive intake.

Gobbledispook · 23/10/2006 18:12

God QoQ - they do seem quite bad.

I'm hoping beyond hoping that mine pass the 11+ and get into the grammar school - all boys one is 99% and the mixed one is 98%.

Failing that, I may consider paying for the independent school where it's 75%.

The 2 comprehensive choices are not so terrible at 73% and 62%.

Even our 'not sending them there in a million years' school is 58% and it's on special measures!

Agree with others though about lack of choice in other areas.

Piffle · 23/10/2006 18:16

WE moved to get away form the lack of choice
WE moved to grammar school area. The boys school ds got into has 100% A-C GCSE pass rate the local comp also has A_C in the 90% range, so we really chose an area that had excellent secondary schools as it was very important to us for ds.
A lot can be decided from OFSTED - if you really have no choice and cannot move, some of these schools may have good teaching but genuine reasons for having poor results - high non english speaking or ESL % students etc

heifer · 23/10/2006 18:17

The 'best' school in our town is I think around 62%...

That is one of the reasons we are moving right away. Up to the wirral in fact where they seem to be so much better.

Most of the grammer schools are averaging around 98% with the first placed non grammer (not sure what they call it up there). is 78%...

Although obviously not the only reason we are moving to the Wirral, but certainly cushioned the blow of leaving my home town to go there....

pointyfangedWeredog · 23/10/2006 18:24

So why were some of your friends pleased when their children got places if the schools have nothing going for them at all? Have you visited the schools?

'Choice' is making divisions wider. Parents who can afford it panic at the figures (figures nowhere near as bad as 25%) and either move, go private or apply to schools further away thus leaving some schools with a very narrow intake. And then the parents with more 'choice' panic even more as figures sink.

notagrannyyet · 23/10/2006 18:35

% of A-C does seem low, but you don't say what kind of school it is. Were the most able pupils creamed off by a grammar school?

The school my younger DC will attend is around 60% A-C. When my eldest (now 26) started GCSEs at the same school the figure was 33% A-C. I can remember being frantic with worry about him going to a poor school.We had no choice it was the bog standard comp or the private grammar. He was the eldest of 6 so the comprehensive it was.The lad himself was not concerned....he said why are you worried mum you know I will be one of the 33%!
For what it's worth this was under a tory government who didn't give a s##t about state schools because their kids went private.

pointyfangedWeredog · 23/10/2006 18:38

notagranny, gee it's nice to hear one positive story from someone who's been through this!

Blu · 23/10/2006 18:38

But heifer - 78% for all-comers (especially if the top students have been 'creamed off' ofr the grammar) sounds as if it might be provising a better education than 98%, where the students are almost guranteed to do well!

The point is, surely, that each child performs at his or her own level - not that your child will achieve the 'average' of the school? If a mixed intake school gets excellent, maybe 100% results from the most able students, but much lower results from the less able, the average will give the school anaverage rating!

Blandmum · 23/10/2006 18:43

Blu I sort of agree with you that 'value added' does give you an indication of the standrad of teaching. But there is a real impact of critical mass when you look at how secondary school kids do in exams.

If yo uhave a school where not doing 'well' is the norm, then behaviour can suffer. If you take an average child and put them is a very disruptive class they will not do as well as if you put them in a high performing class.

In fact, you can take one (sometimes two) highly disruptive kids, put them in the top set where their antics have no 'cred' and they will behave. I've seen it over an over again.

26% would make me worry a bit

The school I work in got 59% and is a good school. We take them in below av and turn them out above av.

RTKangaMummy · 23/10/2006 18:44

Why does it say 15 year olds

they should be 16

or is this the ones who took the exams a year early

?????

Judy1234 · 23/10/2006 18:45

Most children work to the standards of those around 99% A-C which is the kind of level in my children's schools was the sort of thing to be acceptable but you have in most cases to pay for that. Depends on the parent. A lot don't think much of education which never did them much good. Others can barely cope with their own lives, never mind consider a school. For others how far it is to walk there is the only thing that matters.

Blu · 23/10/2006 18:47

I agree about the critical mass - I was just interested in heifers example, where 'non-grammar' gets 78% - which sounds fantastic for a noin-selective school.

In Lambeth schools with dire GCSE results can often turn out excellent 6th form results because the students who stay on create the desirable critical mass for success to become the norm.

Blu · 23/10/2006 18:48

MB - the secondary which will be nearest to us has 61% under the new figures. It takes in an equal number of students across each of 5 ability bands...would you think that sounds good, or not?

notagrannyyet · 23/10/2006 18:49

Whilst the GCSE results at our comp are obviously not as good as the 95% & 100% A-C at the local private (selective) schools. The gap at A levels is not as great. I fact at A level the comp is on a par with the co-ed independant. The comp also welcomes kids from the private schools who are 'thrown out' post 16 because they might not get As at A level.

Blandmum · 23/10/2006 18:50

It never ceaces to amaze me how much 'classroom dynamic' can seriously affect learning in a classroom. Sometimes one child can make the difference between 'success' and 'failure' in a class ....I am thinking particularly of children with very disruptive EBD. Not blaming them, you nderstand, just stating facts

Blandmum · 23/10/2006 18:51

61% for a 'real' comp sounds good to me. You don't mind what the results are, in some ways, as long as all the kids are reaching their potential.....which it sounds as if this school is IYSWIM

pointyfangedWeredog · 23/10/2006 18:52

There was some resesarch recently which referred to the 'average' child that mb mentions, showing that the average child did indeed tend to underperform if peers were disruptive or of lower ability. It also showed that very able kids performed well in exams regardless of peers.