Would you be happy if you child was allocated a place at a senior school that........

[HRHQueenOfQuotes]

had these statistics

% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2002 26%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2003 24%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2004 27%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2005 19%

I have a few friends whose older children go to the school these stats are taken from (found them as a result of the thread elsewhere on MN today about siblings and schools). I was really shocked at how bad those sound - yet some of my friends were really pleased when their children got places at this school!!

The next 'best' school local to be had 46% getting A-C in 2005, and the 'best' had 58% for the same period........the school I hope to get DS1 into when he's old enough averaged out at 88% for the last 5yrs

How can people actually be happy with schools like that - I'm genuinely shocked that parents can settle for such poor school and not demand improvements!

GCSE and equivalent results over time

% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2002 100%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2003 99%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2004 99%
% of 15 year old pupils achieving 5 or more grades A*-C - 2005 98%

here is what the school say -100% for 2005

RTKM, the school stats are measuring something different though - the school's site is saying that for every GCSE sat at least a C grade was obtained. However, it is possible that a pupil was ill towards GCSE time and therefore didn't sit any. In those circs some private schools actually ask the pupil to leave in order to avoid their stats being pulled down!

The school will have provided the results (and will have checked them!).

The Achievement and Attainment tables are not wrong, believe me they go through extensive validation checks, schools also have to check them.

15 year pupils refer to pupils on roll at the start of the academic year i.e. 31st August. This is used as the denominator to calculate the %5A* -C.
So basically, the number of pupils getting 5 A* -C at GCSE in May/June when they take the exams is divided by the total number of pupils at the start of the academic year. Obviously, some pupils may have left since the roll was taken, but they are still included in the denominator.

The Achievement and Attainment tables (or league tables as you say) are now showing pupils at the end of KS4 (when they are 16) to be the denominator.

I hope this is clear, the data is not wrong.

actually I think those statistics are truly shocking.
unless there is a good reason, like tsap school, then I would be very very concerned indeed, not least because the results got worse (from a pretty low level already) last year.
(Tsap I am sure the staff at your school are doing a good job and I don't mean to have a go. but your school is apretty extreme example.)
I think to say you either have it or you don't, some people have strengths and others don't is just glib and insulting. it just can't be the case that four out of five pupils aren't capable of achieving this basic level of achievement and to write them off as just not good enough to make the grade is grossly negligent.
fwiw our local comprehensive secondary school (pretty deprived area) is 68%.

I just looked at my old school and even they get 56% and that really is a "difficult environment"....

One of our local schools has results
2005 24%
2004 16%
2003 14%
2002 22%

It had a great Ofsted last time around, (better than most of the other schools. Another local school - with better results - is in special measures). The latest deprivation figures I saw 50% of children at this school were living below the poverty line, and they have 29% SEN (though I have to say I thought that was higher).

The school is under threat of closure, and there is a great uproar about this and much dissatisfaction.

From what I can tell the school does a good job in the position it is in. But no, there is no way my (very academic) children would go there.

Sounds very much like my school roisin, although lots of the staff do send their kids there. I had a year seven class last year and the majority of the kids were on the at risk register.

We have quite a high proportion ok kids locally creamed off to private schools as well as the favoured few schools who get around 60% A-C grades that parents fall over themselves to get into to.

I didn't take anything personally harpsichordcarrion I was just pointing out that there is more to a school than results, although as a parent I do understand the worries about league tables And of course I do want our kids to do better at school, I am very concened for example that only 18% of our students left last year with 5 A-Cs including english and maths.

Ladymuck

btw I used that school as an example - I am not prepared to announce on the www where my DH and DS are at school.

I have to disagree with you because I can see the list of boys who are in year 11 by name and look at their exam results by name and subject so NOT by statistics

And I can completely confirm that NO CHILD HAS EVER GOT LESS than 5 GCSEs A* - C

It just does not happen

in fact no child has got less then 8 GCSE A* - C

And also going down the list of children in years 10 and 11 you can see what happens with each child by name and their subjects

Well the school will have checked these statistics RTKM - that is part of the process. And frankly I refuse to believe that a high achieving private school wouldn't have corrected these statistics at a much earlier opportunity if they were wrong! They are widely published each year, including by the leading press and the BBC. It is one of the headaches of parents who want to see these statistics that they are not published until December each year - precisely because of the validation process involved. Yes, parents should observe that it is one statistical measure (so for QoQ's school it includes all the pupils who turned 16 in say October and had left school 2 terms before the GCSEs wre due to be sat), but I would be amazed if they were actually wrong for more than a handful of schools (and those would have poor management imo).

I explained a bit about the methodology of the tables - see my post below, they are not wrong!

LM All I can say is that looking at the children's names and their grades rather than looking at statistics - they are wrong

So there must be another explanation

when the school goes back after half term DH will find out and then I will report back to you

DH is out atm but the only way that I can think of is the children who have been advanced a year in prep school

So therefore start year 7 aged 10 rather than 11.

RTKM - In your Dh's school,
where the children 15 at the start of the academic year?
where they on the school roll at the start of the academic year?
Did they come to England before the school census?
These are quections that are taken into account when calculating the tables.

Schools are also given the opportunity to check their data, so if it is wrong the school would have spotted that and have it rectified.

Perhaps the data on the school web is wrong??

I mean 'were'.

Exactly, early takers are excluded from the tables.

Creole

Westminster school is NOT my DH /DS school

I am not prepared to announce on here where my DS goes to school

SO I chose another private school

I am looking at the exam results that are

joe bloggs A A A* A A B B B C

etc

So I am not looking at the school website statistics at DH/DS school

The only thing I can think of is that some of the children have been advanced a year at their prep schools and so come to the school a year younger than the rest of them

ie DS is 11 but he has a boy in his year that is 10 - he was put on a year at prep school

So therefore will be 14 when the others are 15 iyswim

I agree that the school must have checked them

If it is not the reason I have given there must be some other quirky reason that I can't think of

The point is that the children ALL get at least 8 GCSEs A* - C and so imho that should = 100% getting 5 or more shouldn't it.

You see I am not looking at statisitics I am looking at the actual results per child and per subject

Yes but they aren't early takers like the ones that take Maths and French a year early they have just gone through the school from year 7 - 11

BUT have been a year younger ie instead of being 11 years - 16 years

they are 10 years to 15 years

My eldest is only 4, but I'm already aghast about all this (gwan, larf ). Localy we have a choice of two rough, huuuuuuge schools which have appalling reputations and I have a really bad feeling about both of them. I did think "I wonder where the grammar school is", because I sort of thought grammar school represented a happy medium. The grammar school in Exeter is now a private school, which is out of the question. The only grammar school "near" us is about 40 miles away and its results are 100% A-C for GCSE and A-Level. Does anyone else find that a bit sinister? Even if my kids did get in, I'm not sure I want them put under the amount of pressure that must be exerted to guarantee those results every year. They are people, not bloody sausages. So I'm still looking. There's a catholic school about 20 miles away - dh is a catholic - but I don't much fancy that for them either. Am I being picky?

Yes, so they are not 15 at the start of the academic year - these are classed as early takers.

Greensleeves

The thing is that if the school has entrance exams to get into a school it will be creaming off the top of the children academically

So therefore that is why the private schools get 100%

They start off with a higher level academially iyswim

Yes, I realise that - but I still think that in order to maintain such an eerily perfect record they must be creating a very conformist and pressurised environment. I'm not sure it's a healthy environment for my children - the ethos might be slightly at odds with what we are doing at home.

....and it's not private, it's still a state grammar. We're not looking at any private schools.