Private schools 101, I am clueless

[MilesHuntsWig]

Hello,

I'm wondering if you can help, I am completely clueless about private schools, I went to a comp and my husband went to a state grammar. We don't live in an area that has state grammars. DH and I both went to Oxbridge but I had a pretty horrible time at school being interested in learning and was underprepared for the Oxbridge lifestyle. Bottom line is, if DD does like learning, which we hope she does, I'd like her to be in an environment that encourages it and gives her all the opportunities she could have.

Anyway, we are very lucky and both have pretty good jobs and so private school might be an option for our DD (just turned 3). I am absolutely not saying that I think they are all better than state schools and we will visit both and see which school(s) we think DD will fit in at best, but I don't want DD to lose out due to my ignorance.

Basic questions from me:

1. What are the different types of private (primary age) schools. I see just general independent schools and prep schools, are they the same?
2. Does sending your child to a certain type of primary age school preclude them from going to certain secondary schools?
3. Do all private schools have entrance exams/interviews? What are the different entrance years (I've heard of 7+, 11+, 13+ ) is this the same at all schools?

Any advice gratefully received! Thanks.

Sorry OP, this has drifted far from your original questions.
Do look carefully at schools and suit the school to the child, not vice versa.
I would say that since the downturn schools in our area have seen quite a change in clientele. Independent education at primary age has become purely about entrance to the secondary power houses and that leads to narrowing of their iffer in terms of the whole package and ultimately less enjoyable for a childbecome

Do these parents who are so intent on their Children becoming Doctors - have any idea of the reality of training and working in the medical profession nowadays?
The training is harsh, with little flexibility (people have been told they can't have time or re-arrange leave even to get married). And the pay isn't that good compared to other professions (with less of a traditional cache).

A lot of medical families I know recommend their children not to go into Medicine, well unless they have a vocation (so will do long hours for reduced reward).

Ha!
I pay for the exact opposite reason to west! My elder two are very bright with da2 labelled 'gifted ' (which he's not, he's just very bright and very charming) . I wanted a school that would stretch them sideways.

Miles, if you're on the Surrey hamp border you should look at St Neots in Eversley. Is is fab! We lived in HW and my eldest started there. Fantastic school!

Mummytime- many many of them are medics themselves, they're doing it with their eyes open about the realities of that life.
Sorry about ropey spelling.

Why is pointing out cultural differences seen as racist? Most of the music/drama photos from the Tiffin schools do not match their intake - perhaps participation is more important to some families than others?

I disagree though that all independent schools are obsessed with entrance to the secondary power houses, especially those schools which go up to age 13 or those placed just outside the London circle. Most 11 plus tutoring that I've seen takes place outside of school - with a private tutor (on top of fees) - sport and other extra-curricular activities still carry on as normal inside school. A number of private junior schools also have their own senior schools which they feed into and most dc will transfer with ease unless they are truly struggling to keep up.

I think the danger is in taking personal anecotes and observations about a few with a similar cultural background and then generalising it to everyone in that culture. I don't think it's de facto "racist", but it might be a flawed conclusion.

Just because I and other "white british" people I know can't dance doesn't mean ... you see the flaw in that analysis I hope ....

Well, mY children are not white british, nor are the vast majority of their friends.

My husband went to Eton - but we won't be sending our son there. It's not that the school isn't excellent - in spite of some hideous adverts for the school wandering about parliament! - but nowadays the prices are just absurd. There are so many good tutors in London too (you may have to try a few) but once you find some that's all you need - we budget for £150-£200 in tutoring a week. My husband was also quite set against single sex education for our son and is convinced that outside the top 30/40 odd private schools the rest are no better at teaching than most state schools provided they have discipline under control. If your child is shy I would avoid single-sex boarding schools. My own education was very piecemeal (Dad was a hippy we traveled a lot, I know a lot about Archimedes but not much about the Tudors!)

Hey, what's with the aim low don't be a doctor rubbish??!! We have several doctors in the family and I'd be proud of my kids if they went down that route. Schools need to spend more time making sure that they deliver an education giving suitable kids real chances to do such things, and a lot less time organising rugby fixtures/team-building exercises/resilience studies blah blah soft skills crap crap tosh tosh. Funny how our top unis are full of highly academically focused Oriental kids not wasting their time on any of that utter drivel. Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother should be compulsory reading for all head teachers. I do actually agree with that extreme, but it is what our kids are up against. Funny how my son is working a lot harder now he is in a class with some lovely Korean boys. I have a lot of sympathy with westoxmum if name = geography. Nice to seem some posts from someone who is not sad but hasn't forgotten what education is really for. What's "sideways" education anyway - sounds like it's going nowhere. In our family we want "forwards".

Roguedad able DCs have no problems combining both to a high level. They learn time management etc whilst enjoying and developing themselves. They usually want to keep on trying different stuff and challenges both in and out of classroom. All very academic schools are full of DCs doing just that, Caucasion, Asian or whatever ethnic extraction.

Just to add that the top USA universities , more successful and competitive than the UK, are full of students who have been selected both on academic and non-academic achievements. Obviously works for Harvard, Stanford and the like.

Um - round us prep schools are all mixed and all go to Y8 - so not "boys schools" as described earlier. Admittedly a few girls leave at the end of Y6 to join single sex senior schools (girls' ones tend to start at Y7), but the vast majority stay to Y8 and then go on to join a whole mix of day and boarding, single sex and mixed schools. A few more leave at the end of Y6 to go to the local state comp because there you would definitely be the odd one out if you joined in Y9.

Also - my DC's school makes the transition from preprep to prep at the end of Y3, not Y2, but I know that is unusual.

Talkinpeace - YY to "The uber madness of Central London private school competition is a source of some amusement to those living out in the sticks" - it appears to be completely different world.

Roguedad, when I said sideways I meant that I wanted his education not just to be about the academics. I have 4 kids and whereas ds1 is what is consider very bright, ds2 is exceptionally bright. I don't want his schooling to be all about how hard and fast he can be pushed. I want him to take a range of subjects and be allowed to decide which he prefers. That doesn't happen in most state schools I have experience of either as a pupil, parent or teacher. Top sets are pushed down narrow wholly academic routes and it can be disastrous for the self esteem of the child.

He is the child, even looking at it objectively, who could get 5 A* Alevels wherever he was. I pay for him to go to a school who will allow him to develop and pursue a love of textiles or cookery if that is what he wants. Not one who would close that door and say 'oh no' you must take maths, further maths, chemistry and biology at Alevel and apply to med school.
If that is what he wants then wonderful, I'll support him all the way. But I'm damned if I'm pushing him into law or medicine simply because he's super bright. And just to be clear; he is at an excellent school with high academic standards. It just happens to be one that believes in educating the whole person so enrichment and other pursuits are massively encouraged. They believe that by offering what they do the children do better academically that they would if they were pushed through those narrow doors.

Both DH and I are reasonably well educated to post grad level so there's no anti education stance here. Just a fondness for them to enjoy as much of their school life as possible.

"What's "sideways" education anyway - sounds like it's going nowhere. In our family we want "forward""

Sideways means music and sport and all sorts of good stuff. Which obviously you ascribe no value to at all.........

rogue I suspect I am pretty Tiger-ish in my parenting instincts, but I actually think the non-academic stuff feeds the academic.

Obviously, there are some DC at the most selective universities doing nothing but study. But there are a hell of a lot who come from the sorts of schools you're deriding.

I teach at Oxbridge and our sports teams, music societies, drama groups are all thriving. And the bars are full .

You will recall in TBHOTTM, Amy Chua placed huge importance on her DC's music and the family travelled extensively.

It was far from being all about the grades.

I actively want my DC to be doing something other than just academic work. If they are concentrating properly and working hard then that is only sustainable at a good level for relatively limited periods before they get tired and start to under perform. I would prefer them to put in a solid block of good work then go off, have fun and recharge their batteries. I would prefer a rounded happy child that is performing well than a narrowly focussed child who is stressed no matter what their level of performance.

I work in the City and sometimes work long hours with little time for anything else (not today fortunately ) and times like that are a grind and I don't really look forward to going to work. I would hate for my children to feel they are on such an academic treadmill that school becomes something they dread.

I think one of the advantages of some private schools is that they can offer a broader education without compromising the academic side of things.

How terrible to subject a child to hours of tutorials and then into a academic focus school with no fun along the way.

I sent my DD to boarding and found the school with the best pastoral care. They also go on lots of trips and do lots of sports. I think they also do lots of drama and music.

I have never seen my daughter so engaged in her academic study. She actually has been seen to work for hours on complex stuff. To get it right.

I have asked her why? her reply is quite astounding to us. I am having such good fun I don't want to get kicked out for getting bad results. This is the girl three years ago where we had to sit in on her tutorial classes to make sure she works.

What a difference a good school makes. The other academic stuff is important. It reminds the kids what they are working for.

I for one don't want my child not to have a childhood. Then be thrust on the world to work. You have to remember when you start work there is very little time to play.

IMO academic career orientated parents actually place more value on 'sideways' and other activities as long as the academic framework is there to allow a DC to continue leaning to their abilities and enthusiasms.
Certainly one of my DCs favoured activities will provide no qualifications or CV bonus points but has provided fun, relaxation, perseverance, learning hard work, time management, confidence - I could go on.

It's interesting, the "sideways" thing. When we started looking at senior schools for DC1, DH was very much "it's all about the (academic) results" - after we had looked at the first boarding school, we got back in the car and he said "it's not about the results, is it?"

Since then we have been working on the assumption that DC1, who is very academic, will succeed academically in (almost) any decent school, so we are looking for the place where we can see him being happy, being able to grow as a person and develop lots of interests, and be helped to manage the balance between that and academic work. All of which will be far more important to him in later life than any specific qualification. And yes, it's all about expectations.

When my DM, after a career teaching mainly in the independent sector, did supply teaching in a variety of local comprehensives, the single thing that depressed her was the poverty of expectations - no one expected the DC to exceed the minimum "required" level, all the focus was on bringing those who were struggling up to that minimum, with no time or energy left to encourage the DC to look higher and/or wider. She was left with an overriding impression of wasted potential. Not that this is universal in the state sector, of course, but it does go some way to explain what parents are prepared to pay for.

With regards differences in aspirations I think that a certain portion of the private sector is skewed towards aspiring for economics at a top university .