The Trinity-Whitgift-Dulwich-Alleyns 10+/11+ thread 2015

[Firefox1066]

I thought I would take the plunge and start early the 2015 T/W/DC/A 10+/11+ thread that has become an annual staple MN!

This thread has been inspired by the likes of (among others) Ladymuck, Seeline, SoupDragon et al, who have been an amazing resources to people like me in previous years' threads.

Although T & W tend to dominate, I have also included DC and Alleyns as I know a lot of parents these days have DC's sitting for some/all of them.

I hope this thread will continue in the spirit of previous years' thread, with the support, hand-holding and knowledge that has been the hallmark of MN generally but this thread in particular.

Let the fun begin....

Ah thanks Ladymuck, I guess we will just have to ring tomorrow and see if they can give us anymore insight and write back again! We have given everything requested and more, good on them for being so thorough, but wish it was a little easier to sort out! I love letters, but are we actually going to be considered for a bursary at this late stage when they obviously think they don't have all the info? GRRR! the bursary post box and I are on first name terms now! I might as well camp out in George Street! (sigh). They too must be so fed up with us hopefuls.

Emo76
Yes, Alleyn's yesterday too, also a nice female teacher. Not much out of DS though about how it went.
Fingers crossed.

Gilbo, fortunately the bursary office and the schools are not closely linked at all. I suspect the process would possibly be more efficient if it was done at a school level. Occasionally the two sides don't seem to communicate at all, and certainly if you read back over the last couple of years there was at least one parents who received a full fees offer, and it was only with several of us nagging her that she followed it up and discovered that a bursary had been awarded, but there had been no communication about it.

Back home after W10+ interview last week. It was actually the first time for us to visit the school as we live abroad and had conducted most of the school search online. It was in some ways a bit of a shock to the system. I don't think I'd fully appreciated the implications of DS being the youngest in a senior school. It all seemed quite overwhelming, even for me. Looking around, I thought some of the older boys looked quite scruffy and dare I say it, a little "rough"... Am I right to be nervous? Do other people worry about sending their boys to "big school" so early?

I had originally selected W thinking it was an advantage not to have to move schools again at senior... but after the visit am left wondering whether it would be kinder to put him in a smaller safer environment of a prep school so that he can enjoy being the "big fish in a small pond" for a while before moving to senior... although of course that will mean facing entrance exams all over again!

Citymum, the following info on CLSB offers was on the 11+ forum. Cant vouch for how accurate/legitimate it is.

11 plus
666 sat
Working assumption is around 60 places
Interview around 225
offer about 70% of those (fairly low take up rate of 22-37% historically)

10 plus
167 applied
40-45 places
Interview around 80
Offer 55 - 62 (higher take up rate of around 72% at this level given lack of other options at 10 plus)

Suerte I don't think older Whitgift boys look a little rough at all, that is just because you are not used to the teenage boys in the UK, that isnt a worry.

As to whether your 10 year old is ready? Most send theirs at 10 plus as they have outgrown their schools and dont want to have to do it all at 11. Having got this far I would bite the bullet rather than do it all over again bit only you know your child.

I know that my DS would be less unsettled moving once earlier than twice in short space of time.

suerte I understand your concern I felt the same when my DS started 10+ at W. I soon found I had nothing to worry about, the older boys do not mix with the lower school , lower school have their own block and playground I understood from my DS the older boys needs permission to go to the lower school. The Lake Garda trip is a great way for the 10+ boys to bond, and the teachers are fantastic at settling the boys in their new school my experience is that the 10+ boys bond quickly with each other my son is in Yr8 and all the boys are still very close.

Thanks for that Augusta, v interesting.

So for 11+, they interview one in three, they'll probably make c. 160 offers with a few more on a waiting list for 11+. Which means that that about 1 in 4 applicants gets offered a place.

While at 10+, they interview one in two and make an offer to well over 1 in 3 of the applicants.

I wonder why they make the odds so much more favourable for 10+ applicants. Maybe it's good to get them in the bag, I suppose, and avoid 'competing' for them with all the state grammars etc.

Thank you Omnishambles for your thoughts. You are probably right about not being used to seeing teenage boys (and frankly so many in a confined space!) generally, not just in the UK... I was probably also reacting to a comment in a past years' thread (comparing D and W boys) describing W as being unsportsmanship-like and displaying undesirable behaviour in matches against other schools whereas D were better behaved and generally from "posher" backgrounds. Would you say that this is an accurate perception? I agree that 2 school changes in a short space of time is not ideal, which is why I saw an entrance point at 10+ being the perfect solution for us. If we went the prep school route, then I would leave him there till 13 so he gets as long as possible, but not knowing where he will be going to is still unsettling of course. I think part of it is that I'm just getting cold feet at the thought of my DS growing up far to quickly!

Thank you also to CarribeanQueen for your insight of the school. I was a bit confused though as when we were taken around on the school tour after the interview, there were clearly some much older boys in a classroom in the supposedly "lower school" block... It's a relief to hear that there is generally a clear separation of the two and that the 10+ boys all bond together quickly.

I probably would say that there is more money sloshing about at other schools but, and this is a big but, background is no indicator of behaviour, otherwise we wouldnt have the Bullingdon Club.

If you move him at 10 to a prep school he will still have to deal with the L6 and U6 (who can be frankly huge) remember, he will only be 5th form. Plus Whitgift have so few places at 13 it is a massive gamble and you sould be straight into pretests for other school with very little prep and warning.

suerte w is a big school and can be overwhelming but amazing how quickly the boys settle particularly at 10+ where year number is smaller. My ds joined at 10+ and loves the school. I haven't seen any unsportsmanlike behaviour quite the contrary. I have heard of an incident that was addressed by the headmaster immediately and those involved were punished. In other words this is something the school won't tolerate. I have regularly been to fixtures against DC and really wouldn't be able to separate the behaviour of the boys.

Can I say with regarding W being unsportsmanship-like-toward D it goes both ways there is an intense dislike between both school the last rugby u13 match at W against D was very bad during the match some of the D boys were swearing at the W boys a few D boys refused to shake my son's hand at the end of the game don't get me wrong I am sure it's on both sides. The D boys felt the W boys are too aggressive but as one dad said it is a rugby match.

I'm just wondering if I could get everyone's thoughts on just how much weight you give your DC when it comes to deciding where to go? While I sit and wait for the results (agonising!) I've been giving thought as to what happens if we get offers from our top 2 schools. My son likes both but prefers T over DC. I think both schools are fab actually and would be happy with either. But DC is much much more convenient for us. I think that my DS will do well at either school to be honest. I'm just wondering how many of you let your child choose even if it's not your own personal first choice. Thanks!!

I would certainly takes my dcs view into account, and would certainly want to know what was important to them and why they had an order of preference. But at the end of the day, it is an adult decision, and 10/11 year olds may not realise how much their priorities will change over the next 5--7 years.

cloe489, yes have been wondering that myself if after these two long weeks we have offers from both schools (very lucky!). I think we will take it into consideration what DS wants but ultimately we have to make that decision for him as he just will not have the reasoning skills to understand the choice he is making. Hopefully he will like the one that we choose the best!

We got DS to list the pros and cons of both schools when we went round the open days...at the time he preferred T over W. He now has a slight preference for W having been on their science course and their interview process.

Although we will take into account his thoughts, a £15k - £17k p.a. investment ultimately means that it'll be the ones signing he cheques that gets the final say!

On a separate note, Ive spent so much time over-analysing the "very positive" feedback from the W interview with the constant refrain of "there were parents who had rejections last year, even though feedback at interview was very positive" ringing in my ears!!

Roll on, next Friday!

I don't have a child at either T, A, W or DC yet, but reading through the posts on this thread and I have repeatedly seen parents at other schools slyly putting down DC boys. I've yet to read a DC parent slagging off any of the other schools. Tells me a lot!

Firefox - unfortunately this is the case and probably at T too. Remember everyone interviewed is a potential candidate so if you get that far there is no reason for a 'negative' interview as such. But with finite places available there will be some that do not get offers. I think at W in previous years there had been a problem with parents believing they had had really positive interviews and practically offered scholarships on the spot! Some were then dissapointed when they received a full fee offer - or no offer at all.

reapo If you are going to cast aspersions, then can you at least back them up with examples? Exactly which are the "repeated" posts "slyly putting down DC Boys"? Can you give examples of these "repeated slagging off"?

Burnt Yeah, I hear you...as we are looking for full fees offers, we at least don't have the scholarship issue (we were given no indication that DS had done well enough, nor did we really expect him to)

Maybe, parent neurosis over-analysis is the reason why T dont interview parents

Reapo - try Chelseatina or luckylavender who posted on the Dulwich or Whitgift? thread a couple of years ago - that may tell you a lot too!

Hi there,
While still didnt receive any offer, I would need some help from you to help me choose between Dulwich College and CLSB should I need to decide.
I know they are v different schools, but apart for the location I would appreciate any advise about pastoral care, academics and beyond. My son sat 10+ .
Many thanks

Burnt...remember this..."Whitgift is a third tier school and is so low that it doesnt even appear in any of the top league tables"...It took (I think) Ladymuck to point out that The Foundation schools had withdrawn from the league tables in the past couple of years!

Suerte, I do sympathise with you, it does sound like a big move for your DS, country change and school change. I just want to echo a few comments already passed. My DS joined at 10+ as well, and we have no regrets. I have some DN in the school and 2 joined at 11+ and 1 at 10+ ( last one), and their mum tells me if she could do it again she would've let them all go at 10+. A number of people I know who joined at 11+ said ( the parents), the wish they had joined at 10+, but some were not aware this was a possibility even. Obviously it is not for everyone to join that early, but the boys seem to settle quicker. I do believe the LG trip also aids this. the boys get to bond and also get to know their teachers.

The lower school is generally kept separate, the older boys have to ask permission and have a good reason to visit the lower school. My DS doesn't see his cousins until the end of the day usually, if that even. As someone mentioned it is easier to gain admission at 10+/11+ than other years ( obviously not impossible). And he will have to have sat a pre test in most 13+ schools. I know W do a pre test as well but I think it is for the only for boarders, at this stage.

About not displaying good sportsmanship, I think I know the thread you refer to, and I believe the person who wrote that thread ( although in a very responsible/ important role), clearly had her facts wrong on a number of things she wrote. I have been to a few W against DC matches and I have not experienced W boys displaying untoward behaviour across hockey, cricket, & rugby matches. I also only witnessed one match where the DC boys ( at 10+), were not very well behaved, using bad language, and passing racist remarks and also refusing to shake hands, with the W boys. But that was one match and I believe there were 3 boys only involved. For the record, I am in no way slagging DC boys, it just what I saw on the day. Other than that I've not seen bad sportsmanship displayed. If I remember correctly, also, on the thread mentioned, there was a DC parent who was 'slagging off' W boys, so it is not correct to say they don't.

There are a number of W boys who have siblings in DC, and I know some DC boys as well, and I don't think they are different to the W boys on the whole. But this is looking through my own little corner of life. I do agree that DC has a 'posher' feel to it. But horses for courses.