What can a bursary family do / not do?

[JoDoeCalling]

My children have bursaries to attend their independent school and part of the condition of this is that we live "a life at the standard worthy of a bursary".

I presume this means as a poor person, whatever that may be.

I was looking at a senior school and that said no extras such as: owning a second home (fine don't own first), going on multiple holidays a year (one holiday in uk every 3 years), owning a new car (car 15years old), owning a luxury car (now car is bmw but was a friend's who gave it to us 6mths ago for £250), or eating out (does McDonald's count?)

Now this is making me worry I'm not allowed to let other parents know we're on a bursary as signed when awarded but do I need to be concerned?

Secondly I feel that if I have any negative comment to make to school re children I can't in fear of bursary removal - does anyone else have this fear and is it irrational fear or a justified fear?

Are they available for prep school as well as secondary?

Bursaries at prep schools are harder to find although not impossible.
Big name independent schools often have correspondingly large bursary pots, so don't be afraid to approach them, e.g. Eton, Win Coll, St Pauls (if you have a DS) of course your DC will have to meet their normal entry criteria.
Christ Hospital was at one time only really for children who required a bursary it's changed now but still has lots on bursaries.
Less well resourced schools often don't offer generous bursaries or large bursaries are means tested and only available to those who've won some sort of scholarship.
But as one bursar once said to me if you don't ask you won't get.

I dont mean to be rude, i dont have any knowledge on private school fees etc..

But i always thought people who got private school funded for free, got it free because their child was way way above bright academically.

So how come people are entitled to free private education if their child is average or above average? How come they are not forced to go to the local state school?

In the old days there were scholarships. You got those on academic brilliance and even if you were very rich those who got the best results got them. Now as the law on charities has changed private schools need to show they help the poor in effect so those who are quite bright but not necessarily brighter than those paying full fees, get help if the parents are not very well off (they do not seem to take account of what a stay at home mother might earn if she worked in bursaries which is a bit unfair on single mothers paying fees who obviously have to work).

So a scholarships now which my children have (music one) is a token sum off the fees (I earn too much to get a bursary) and for the honour of it rather than any money off. Most schools cannot afford many bursaries and most bursaries are a fairly small sum off the fees, not free fees but there are some which are full fees. My daughter's class mate who was a completely brilliant genius type who went to Cambridge and brighter than most of the other girls in that top 3 school was from a family father tax driver, she was nothing like the rest of the family and quite rightly got full fees paid

Counting in most cases bursaries are awarded to bright children or children who are talented sportsman musicians etc. They've often won a scholarship which carries little financial rewards and then apply for a means tested bursary. Most of the schools offering large stand alone bursaries unattached to scholarships a very selective schools who only take the very bright, but they are committed to widening their access and enabling a very bright child from what ever their families financial situation is to benefit from what they have to offer.

"brighter than most of the other girls in that top 3 school was from a family father tax driver, she was nothing like the rest of the family and quite rightly got full fees paid"

She was really fish out of water in her family - just totally different and very clever from a very early age and lucky enough to get the full scholarship. I am not saying taxi drivers cannot have clever children of course.

I suppose a lot depends on the reason that someone is a taxi driver. I know a taxi driver from croatia who has a physics degree. It can take a simple stroke of bad luck for people to find themselves on the poverty line.

Rich people sometimes have children who are as thick as pigshit. Sometimes exceptionally bright children come from the poorest of backgrounds. Genetics is full of surprises.

I suppose it also depends whether you think being a taxi driver is "a stroke of bad luck"!

Don't taxi drivers have to learn "the knowledge" or a similar term. I would have thought to be a London taxi driver in particular and to have learnt all the roads etc you'd have to be very bright!

A couple of the independent schools near me have very clear bursary policies. Both charge fees of around £12k pa (day schools). One gives a 100% bursary for families with an income under £20k and nothing for incomes over £45k and the other gives a full bursary for incomes under £23k but nothing for incomes over £50k. They both stipulate that the children need to do very well in the entrance exams in order to secure a bursary assisted place, so I suppose the bursaries are really hefty scholarships for children from poorer families. I think it is fairer than the old system of providing hefty financial assistance for families (under scholarship schemes) who could really afford full fees without financial aid.
From what I can gather the school will take into account income from 2nd properties and will consider very large assets when offering a bursary but they don't expect families to never eat out or buy a decentish car or have any modest luxuries. They might question why a family on a full bursary have been skiing, on a cruise and to Disney all within the same year but they wouldn't be bothered if the family went to center parcs for a weekend.
Their schools also review bursary entitlement on an annual basis so if your earnings rise significantly your bursary will be (quite rightly) reduced.

countingthepennies what others have said. You don't get a bursary these days by being in your own words average or below average.

Taxi drivers work exceptionally hard for their income and certainly are bright. I don't think its bad luck being a taxi driver so much as its good luck securing a 100K job. It may well be the case that the taxi driver has a higher IQ than the banker he is transporting. However the banker may well have attended a better school.

Brains and hardwork do not necessarily determine wealth. Hence social moblity is at an all time low in the UK.

greengrow most schools expect both parents to work. I don't know any stay at home mother with a bursary.

Someone is being a wee bit mischievous on this thread.

There are fulltime working single mothers... and then there are fulltime working single mothers who have the odd island knocking about to sell when things get a bit tight

Ahhh! I thought it was her!

I have a relative who works full time and knows a lot at the school who have a stay at home mother and a bursary when if the mother worked they would earn too much for a bursary.

I don't mind about these people getting bursaries but my relative does and I can understand it. Works fingers to bone 6 days a week and others getting bigger bursaries where the woman is well qualified and could get a job, doesn't work and family get bursary or self employed and they manage cleverly to pretend the business income is low and expenses high, which is why checking if people eat out, spend on holidays, have more than the £1k cars we have are claiming them.

I have nothing against taxi drivers. I was just painting the picture of how that little girl seemed like a fish out of water in the family she was in and she was - she was amazing.

BUT Schools ask the self employed a detailed list of business expenses which match the accounts for your taxes and vat!

And just to add, running your own business can sometimes be really costly and you have to keep running it even when you have no clients or your clients are not paying you!

I was asked a ton of questions when applying. They asked me if I could rely on grandparents etc and things and I think they are carefully selected because they can't dish out money. I am incredibly grateful for my dd's busary as she loves her school and it has changed her so much. she is a much happier person. One of my friends is applying for a busary and her and her husband has just recently split and the school have asked her questions about her marriage and the breakdown of her marriage as she feels they think she has staged a break up to get a busary. She never used to work either her husband has a small business but the school did tell her to be awarded a busary if you could afford it by a parent working or downsizing etc..then you should to maximise only giving busaries to those who truly could not afford it even when both parents work. I think it is true that if you live a luxurious lifestyle and expect a busary it is wrong.

My DC had bursaries/scholarships..we were either low waged paid and/or benefits. DC were judged to be children who would benefit from the education they could provide and had parents who couldn't afford fees.

We had to provide bank statements/P60s. I was a SAHM, we couldn't afford childcare or transport to get to work. Where we lived had no public transport. We don't own property and at the time drove old bangers so DH could get to work. Holidays were in a tent for a week in North Devon! DC went on trips and had music lessons etc. We paid for 'add ons' if we could afford them.
DS2 worked during holidays to go on an expensive trekking trip. The teachers were impressed at his work ethic to pay for it himself.

I've always worked but as far as I'm aware once your children are old enough to be at secondary school then mothers would be expected to find some sort of work. I think most bursars would question why they didn't have some sort of job especially if children were boarding.
Of course one acceptable and I suspect increasingly common reason for mothers not to be working or at least not working full time now is that they are caring for an ageing relative, this looked like a possibility for me at one time but sadly never happened.
Greengrow it's easy to make assumptions about people occupation cars etc and say X shouldn't be receiving a bursary because Y doesn't get one and she's clearly financially worse off but either Y should apply for one or you should mind your own business, as only X and the bursar should know all the details of the financial situation, in all schools I've ever talked too bursaries size and related information are strictly confidential. Every case is individual.
As I said above we don't drive 1k cars but as my DH clocks up 35k miles a year and I'm pushing 25k (we have significant petrol bills), we feel that we both need economical and reliable and therefore more expensive cars, if we could cycle everyday (what a wonderful idea) to work we might feel differently of course.

We earn above 25000 (just) but honestly couldnt afford a lot of the things that people on bursaries here are talking about affording!

Is it the case that you actually have to earn quite a lot to be able to afford to manage a bursary?

I'm ex Oxbridge and in a v.low achieving area. I would love to send my daughter to a better school as she appears to be bright in the way I was at school. It would feel wrong to just send one child private though, and there is absolutely no way we could afford half of 15000 x2 (ie 15000) as that's about what we live on after tax!!!

There aren't big name schools near us on the whole, just smaller independents which I suppose aren't likely to offer full bursaries anyway.

I'm honestly amazed at what people on bursaries can afford! We'd move to a better (state) area even if we had a better income.

Millionaire perhaps you could look at Christ's Hospital (full boarding) on your income I suspect you'd get a very substantial bursary.

Wow that looks amazing, and 14% are fully supported, so she wouldn't stick out as much as at some places (the only family not going skiing thing). But I'm really not sure any of us would want her to board!