Alan Bennett on private education

[UrbanDad]

A great quote from AlanBennett, in the Guardian today taken from his talk last summer at King’s College Chapel, Cambridge: “We all know that to educate not according to ability butaccording to the social situation of theparents is both wrong and a waste. Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who payfor it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, orshould. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.”

I cannot disagree with any of that.

Cokefan if you ban independent schools those who send their Dc's to the elite schools who it could be argued represent the greatest inequalities between state and the independent sector will not then send them to the local comp up the road however outstanding and high achieving it might be, they will send their DC's abroad. Just like if you forcibly closed Harvey Nicks, these parents wouldn't shop in Primark or buy they clothes in Dorothy Perkins if you made Alexander McQueen illegal.

Mintyy - what if they did more harm by using state schools?

Mintyy

Can I ask you how you think they are doing harm? I maybe being a bit dim here, but am generally interested. I would like to hear your pov

You're right Mintyy I have read a thousand arguments against independent ed and so far not one has convinced me that I am doing anyone any harm by sending my DS to an independent school. I buy onto the "its not fair argument", I can understand why some are jealous, I fully sympathise with the view why should so few have so much more than others? But it doesn't matter how I look at it I cannot see that I am doing anyone any harm by sending my DS to an independent school. It doesn't make a scrap of difference to any of the children at our local high performing ofstead inspected and considered to be outstanding local school.

Cokefan

My dd hopes to attend what is considered an elite ss specialist school the fees are over 30k. If she doesn't make it, no way will she attend a local state secondary school, we will continue to H.ed.
I just wish our other 2 dc had the chance to gain such a suitable and fitting education in the state system, but alas we live in an area of huge deprivation.
So, you do the best for your dc with what you have available. It may be stte or private, what others do is immaterial and doesn't affect what you have available.

I do listen by the way and I could make the same point to you, everyone know my position I always fight my corner, you haven't changed your opinion regardless of what I and others write. We currently live in relatively free country least we did the last time I looked and part of living in a free country is that we are entitled to our views and to express them.

Cokefan I don't think I'd do others any body else's children any harm by using the state sector but them we don't live in are where outstanding high chiding schools are oversubscribed.
I choose not to use it because like morethan'what it offers doesn't do what I personally want education to do therefore it doesn't suit or fit me or my DS.

morethan - I'm not suggesting that private schools should be closed (was privately educated myself). I'm only saying that those arguing that everything would be "fair" in education if only private schools didn't exist would then find things still weren't equal. Children of wealthier/more involved parents would still have better outcomes by spending more money/time on them.

I don't know what's a matter with this iPad it's gone crazy changing everything I write.

Sorry Cokefan

I get terribly confused with these threads.

I think I agree with you,

I would also like to add btw, that whilst I have read lots of threads about the unfairness of religious schools in terms of catchment and people trying to gain places etc. This too is a bit of a generalisation too.
Where i live there are lots of faith schools, they don't perform better than other schools and if they do its only one or two of them. They are usually under subscribed so aren't so meticulous in their admittance criteria, completely different to what I hear to be the case in other areas.
So, one person's unfairness is not an issue for somebody in other areas.
We also don't have the grammar school angst that parents seem to have in Kent, we just don't have any
We all know situations that aren't fair, you just have to live with it and try to make it better for your own dc and those that follow.

happy - maybe your iPad just doesn't agree with you.

That's cool, morethan

Oh God rabbit do you think that's what it is? Is it a closet socialist? I can live with that as long as it's not secretly supporting that prick Farage I'd have to dump it and get a Microsoft tablet .

Oh, that Apple is a socialist to the core, happy.

Those who want private schools abolished generally argue that in doing so:

All these Independently Educated children will be forced to go to their local comp thereby improving aspirations of all children generally, iron sharpens iron etcLess brain drain from local schools, providing healthy competition amongst all the children.(I'm aware I may not have worded this correctly but something along those lines).

1. The money saved from private education will go into improving the local comps. This is by far is the one that baffles me most, how and whywill my saved £30k now go into the local school? Will it be deducted straight from our accounts? Because I certainly won't be taking it to the local comp.

1. These well educated middle class parents can throw their brains and energies into improving the local schools.

First I think that's quite insulting to state school parents who are already doing this in many ways. Secondly, I did this when we were in the state sector; committee, voluntary reading, sticking labels, parent escort, it didn't make a jot of difference, Infact the school leadership would not welcome that level of interference help.

Having been brought up by liberal left wing intellectuals I know what hypocrites socialist can be, few are socialist to the core so perhaps only an Apple computer can be socialist to the core.

If I ever started throwing my brains and energies into any school I need an urgent CT head as I must have a personality altering space occupying legion. One of the best things for me about paying: no one is asking me to man a teddy bear stall so I don't have to offend anyone by saying no.
barack DS1's sixth form college asks for a yearly voluntary donation I'd rather vote UKIP (see comment above) than pay it.

happygardening - I think your iPad was infected by a particularly dangerous sort of socialist worm, so it really is socialist to its core. Unless the worm has turned.

What I don't understand most (and hoping someone will enlighten me as I didn't school in the U.K) is why is it that all those arguing about inequality in education completely ignore the huge elephant in the room? Who is responsible for education? The state! Why are there no threads about the government being lobbied for an educational experience on par with what the independent sector provides? If dim but rich Jonny goes to Stowe and gains five GCSEs at grade A and Bs but would have sunk without trace in the local comp, is that not testament to what a good quality education can do? Evidence of how many children are being failed.

I'm aware there are some brilliant comps out there, but there are so few of them. We were surrounded by 3 really bad ones. Our current catchment school was visited recently as we are toying with the idea ds2 might benefit from schooling locally. Headteacher's opening comment, " if you're looking for a an academic school you've come to the wrong place". We didn't say we were looking for an "academic school", all I asked what were their outcomes in terms of going on to university.

The fight should be with the providers of education, Its not going to be possible to replicate all the resources and facilities the Indy schools have across the country, but there's a hell of a lot that could.

You could always test it out - try typing "Who is our glorious leader?" into your search engine and see who it comes up with.

Not David Cameron, then?

Rabbit I'm worried now on typing in who is our glorious leader into the search engine it bought up a photo from my cloud of a newspaper I found in my parents belongings: The Daily Worker headline Stalin The Architect of Socialism Is Dead.

Still least it wasn't a picture if Nigel and David arm in arm.

cokefan- maintained schools already have to examine how many FSM (well Pupil premium) pupils are in each ability group.

At least it only changed your high achieving schools to high chiding ones, happy. With Stalin as its inspiration, it could have been far more draconian.