A teacher is physically or verbally assaulted every seven minutes

[Hulababy]

Story

Sadly I suspect this is very true, and many are completely unreported. I know whe I had a problem like this it never went further than the deputy head

But, what to do? How can this be improved and made better?

Problem is that, when some parents are responsible for some of the abuse, their children are likely to follow suit. I do agree that a lot of it is down to a general erosion of respect for other people, not just figures in authority.

In the NHS, many hospitals/gps surgeries have a zero tolerance policy, so that, if someone verbally or physically assaults a member of staff, they are refused treatment. Not sure how you could apply this concept to schools, other than to have "borstals" again, i.e. schools where such children go so that they do not disrupt mainstream education for all other pupils. And, if it is the parents who are doing the abusing, do you send the child there?

It's very difficult and I am shocked that this goes on, although not necessarily surprised seeing the attitudes of some people these days.

I was called a Bitch by one of my little charmers. She was given an after school detention, but nothing further was done as it was the case of her word against mine.

I was also told to F Off but as it was in french, I couldn't prove that the child knew what it meant! At leat the kid had some ability in MFL!

The sad thing is that the balance of power has now gone so far towards the rights of the child that the rights of the teachers have been forgotten.

Classic case, a mate of mine stood between a nastly bully and the child he was about to punch (note, punch with a clenched fist, not slapped). The Bully then stood up an head butted the teacher. Child withdrawn from class who then accused teacher of head butting him! Father demands that the police are involved and teacher sacked. Rest of class support teacher's story 100%. Did father appologise? No. Were police involved for defamation of character and assalut of teacher? No.

And people are surprised that violence is endemic in schools? I'm not!

Agree Freckle. Also the parents you are talking about wil never believe that their child is responsible for bad behaviour, ever! I have had parents tell me that their child never lies! I love my kids to bits, and they are good children, but never lie? Bollocks! Everyone lies at some point!

I'm a teacher who has no desire not to go back into the profession after the birth of my dd. I've been lucky, having worked at lovely schools, with polite well-mannered children. But I have been in some schools during my training that made me wonder if this was what I wanted to put myself through every day; feeling petrified of walking into the classroom for fear of violence, abuse and potential litigation.

Oh God, Radio-5 Live is having a phone-in about this today and it's wound me up something rotten.
That's see, so far these factors have been blamed:

Promiscuity (the current phone caller, too much encouragement for teen girls to have babies)
Working mothers (we're all too keen to give baby to childminder)
Lack of religious guidance
Lack of discipline (several Nigerian callers)
Junk food and unmarried mothers (more from current caller)
Too little opportunity for children to learn to make decisions
Children being allowed to make too many of their own decisions
Too much expectation that children grow up
Dressing children like adults

Did anybody else go to so-called "good" schools with terrible discipline problems themselves, 20-25 years ago?! When did corporal punishment stop in English schools? Might as well call for that again, too.
If I didn't have noisy preschoolers at home, I might just phone up and rant and rave a bit myself!!

Actually, I should also add, that on good days teaching is the most fulfilling, enjoyable and rewarding career I know I still have cards and letters from some of the 5 year olds I used to teach, asking how I am and that they miss me!

I have beeb sworn at countless of times and I always report it but not much is done. Not because senior staff dont care about it but because noone has enough time to adequately deal with it. I teach in a large school where swearing at teachers is commonplace. If I have felt threatened then I will make more of an issue out of it but I have had to continue teaching one particular child who was very intimidating and had anger management issues.
It is the parents of these kids who dont respond tp letters sent home nor bother turning up to parents evenings.

When I was at school, the threat of my parents getting a letter/phone call etc was enough to make me behave (I was only cheeky though, no violence) whereas now, I think parents would believe their child and not the teacher and start having a go. Same as if you tell a child off for throwing litter or whatever, you get a mouthful, no respect for authority figures.

My own stories from the school I currently work at. School used to be okay - very typical comp when I was growing up. Started working there 3 years a go. I have just handed in my notice to leave and do supply teaching so that I can get out and have some time for me for a but. Discipline there is non exostent and it has made me feel so negative to my job - I hate that feeling. For my first 5 years of teaching I loved it, this last 3 have made me very downhearted.

Jan 2001 - I was 7 pg. 13yo boy in class not working and disrupting others. Asked him to do some work please. Refused. ARepeated request and again refused. Asked him to go and stand outside classroom door please so we could discuss it out there and not disturb class. He got up as if to go so I began to turn away to deal with other pupils. He grabbed his chair picked it up and threw it towards me. Hit side of my tummy - very obviously og BTW. He then stormed out of room and put his fist threw my class room door and the glass in the fire door outside the room. His punishment: he got 2 days out of school. I got no apology and until recently still had to teach him. He still joked with his mates about it. Rest of his class saw it and were genuinely shocked. 2 of his friends beat him up a bit that night - not condoning that BTW but just to realise that they thought he was out of order. But no apology, no parents in and no one from senior management ever spoke to me about it again. My union rep suggeste leaving it as I was going on mat leave anyway.

Recently we have has children downloading hard core porn, swearing at teachers, knocking a female trainee teacher over in corridor, etc. They have had no formal punishement at all

Just so sad.

Agree Herculies. We once came to the conclusion that, on the whole, if parents had booked an appointmant for the PT meeting, you could send them a letter, telling them that their child was fine! The parents that you need to talk to never turn up!

To my mind the cause of the problem is that children know their rights too well, and their responsibilities not at all. Theu know that 9 times out of 10 there are no consequences for their bad behaviour.

And I'd also like to say that I love my job and that most of the kids are great. it is just he hard core that wreck it for the rest. And my greatest sympathy doesn't go to me or other teachers, but to the good kids who are having their chances of education wrecked by a bunch of horrors.

We should run zero tolerence (taking on board the needs of kids with ADHD etc). If I were to raise my had to a child, I would be out (rightly so), if a kid does the same to me (and some of there are 6 foot 16 year olds) the same should apply. Kids who assault teachers should be prosecuted.

hercules/hmb - agree with what you have said.

I agree that physical assaults in school should be treated the same way as assaults out of school. If a 16yo hit you in the street, you could contact the police and involve all its consequences. I'm bemused that things should be dealt with differently in school.

Following on from this I wonder what other people (teachers and non teachers) feel about our school's new discipline policy for monor classroom disruptions. It is not designed for serious offenses but monir ones such as talking, out of seat, not walking, disrupting, not following instructions, chewing, etc. It gives pupils SEVEN warnings!!!

BTW it is a secondary school so aimed at pupils aged 11-18 years. And is designed for the whole school. SEN pupils, etc. are treated slightly differently.

The policy goes like this:

First warning
i.e. "Jonny, Can you remove your coat now please/Can you put your hand up to ask a question!

Second incident (same one or ifferent)
i.e. "Jonny, I am now issueing you with a Green warning. Can you now please do..."
Name is written on green card

Third incident
i.e. "Jonny, I have asked twice already, can you now stop talking and continue with your work; if not you shall have an amber card"

Fourth incident
i.e. "Jonny, I am now issueing you with an Amber warning. Can you now please do..."
Name is written on amber card

Fifth incident
i.e. "Jonny, I have asked already, can you now stop talking and continue with your work; if not you shall have a red card; this will mean a forma punishment and a pupil concern form"

Sixth incident
i.e. "Jonny, I am now issuing you with a red warning. Please stay behind at end of lesson to discuss this. Now you must do... or I will ask active patrol to come and remove you from my lesson"
Name is written on red card
Pupil concern form is completed - copy to head of department and to form tutor
Formal punishment is issued - lines, detention, etc.

Seventh incident
i.e. "Jonny I am now calling Active Patrol to come and remove you from my lesson. You have continued to do..... Please pack away your belongings"
Call for Active Patrol (member on ataff on duty with intercom)
After a few minutes (hopefully) someone should come and remove child
Active patrol asks teacher for info about behaviour

Once there who knows what happens?!?!?!?

So what do we think?

I'm not a teacher or a parent of secondary school age children yet but just wanted to add that you teachers should be given a bloody medal. I find it disgusting that teachers are threatened so often and there should be Zero-Tolerance and treated in the same way as I would be if I walked down the street and clumped someone!!

Just wanted to add 2 stories from the 2 local Secondary schools to me.

1st one (worst reputation) - Police offered their services to the school to provide a General Chat and Advice session - covering everything from Anti-Social behaviour, Underage drinking/drugs/sex etc etc. The Headteacher turned round to them and said "thanks, but we don't need it, we don't have any problems with regards to those in our school!!!"

2nd one - child being severely bullied - threatened with knives/stalking etc etc. Dad kept going into school. Dad said he would keep her at home unless the school ensured her safety. Headteacher has said "well, do that then as I can't guarantee her safety here!!!"

Hulababy

Have to say I find the "7" card warning system rather infuriating!! What's wrong with the "Stand outside the classroom??" which happended in my day Imagine the time wasted for the poor kids that do want to learn when the teacher has to issue "7" cards to each child disrupting the class.

Exactly slinky. In bad classes you could spend the whole lesson giving warnings and writing names and cards. I just think at aged 11+, 7 warnings is too much. I don't give my 2yo DD that many!

Exactly Hula - My kids get 1 card and they're out and they're 8, 6 and 4!

message withdrawn

I read an piece in Private Eye last night, written by a teacher, it was in diary form. As I was reading it I thought, ?God yes this is exactly the sort of thing I remember going on when I was at school?. Nothing major just general constant disruptions. Keeping people quiet, dealing with mouthy kids, handing out pens and pencils, dealing with latecomers etc etc. 20 minutes into his lesson for example no work had been done as it was all about dealing with awkward, mouthy children. One maths lesson he spent 30 minutes trying, in vain, to get to one of the pupils to help her but couldn't get there because one boy kept being really disruptive. I'm sure it goes on all the time in thousands of schools and it just made me fell really sad and worn out on behalf of the majority of teachers out there. I don't know how you do it, it must be so frustrating a lot of the time. That?s not even touched on physical abuse on teachers, Jesus, what is the world coming to?

There are many awful schools around. I just feel so sorry for the children who do want to learn when you have one individual who can wreck a class. I did teach until one day I was attached with a pair of scissors....I remember looking out the window and thinking that's it!!! and just walked....yes out the school, never to go back!...one of the bravest and most sensible things I think I have done....I discovered later that I must have been in the early days of pregnancy too...so thank god!....what a hullabaloo with unions though later because I had walked...There had been no support from senior management. I have taught since and been in some lovely schools...thank goodness, and do want to return when Ds is at school himself.

oooops meant ..attacked!!..I'm sure you knew what I meant...Teachers spelling eh!

How horrid for you Israel and I don't blame you for walking. Pity the schools can't be more supportive of their staff isn't it?

Note to self: mustn't get too involved in this discussion ...

Slink, sending a kid to stand outside just doesn't work in my place. This is happening all the time in my department - and the kids know that if they don't want to stay in the room they can do one thing and get sent out and spend a blissful period of time running up and down the corridor with all their mates who've been sent out of other classes. We can have up to 5 out in the corridor in any one lesson. As head of department I have tried to encourage colleagues to only use this as a last resort when a short period of time out is required, and that it must only be for a maximum of 2 minutes to cool down and that it must be followed up through myself as head of department and the student's tutor - in other words asking for the support that is available in school. However, although I am allocated 5 hours off timetable each week to undertake the management of my department, most of this time is spent up and down the corridor sorting out children who have been sent out. And most of the 20 hours that I am teaching are interrupted at some point as I have to go out in the corridor to deal with a child who has been sent out and is causing disruption up and down the corridor.

I know in theory it is a good idea, but these children do not accept being sent out as a punishment, do not stand where they have been asked to etc. etc.

I have yet to hear of or go into one of these terrible schools that people talk of. We have very challenging behaviour from our students and very dedicated staff and managers who do their best to try and deal with it. But we are fighting a huge battle, and are allowed very little time in which to do it. I think that there are answers, but I don't think any politician is ever going to be brave enough to introduce the radical changes that are required.

Fisil - LOL at your "don't get too involved"

Thinking about it, "outside the classroom" is too simplistic - and yes, can't imagine there are many that will stand there without moving

I really don't know what the answer is but I really believe something HAS to be done, not only for you poor teachers having to deal with the crap, but for those kids that do really want to learn and get on and do well.

The thought of Secondary school scares the s* out of me - DD1 will be in Year 4 come September so need to give it some thought over the next year or so. The primary school they attend is a delightful, well-run school with a fabulous Headteacher - and I wish they could stay there forever

I agree fisil, that sending pupils outside the room doesn't really work except in one off cases and for a minute or two for a child to cool down again before coming back in the room to rejoin the class. I am lucky as my room is between the two learning support units, and the hall so if I do send a child out of the room they are pretty much on their own. Can be a nightmare for other classes where they are next door oto each other.

Does your school have any good policies regarding behaviour that work fisil?

My last school was a whole different ball game and there really were very few discipline issues at all. This one has really shocked me and disillusioned me totally. I thinkt he new 7 stage policy says a lot really. Management just aren't there to support sadly

fingers in ear
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not listening
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