Independent Schools NW London / Herts

[mitbap]

We're looking for a girls senior school. dd is bright but probably not 'gifted'. Any recommendations?

Thanks all.
My current view is that the independent sector is no different from the state sector in that you can't choose them - they choose you - different means and criteria maybe but either way you don't have a lot of control over it.
Suspect I'll put dd1 in for all candidate schools and forever kick myself if it goes Pete Tong and her confidence is shattered and she has to go to schools we've inferred by our actions are inferior and for the not so bright.

That sounds wise. We tried not to let the child know which were regarded as better schools and which we'd prefer them to go to so there was no pressure or even knowledge about which did better at A level league tables etc. Our only glitch was when the brightest one coudln't get into Habs where her sister was at 5 and then got into NLCS at 7. She was disappointed but 13 years later it hasn't mattered at all. In fact now they're going to university all that agonising over schools seems a bit silly now.

Hi again. Tutor suggests that dds essay writting needs much work. She uses too much first person and speech marks, uses words like lots, got and nice, likes to bring in family members and mealtimes and times of day etc. This apparently is too immature and independent school entrance papers are looking for something much more abstract and descriptive. I'm concerned as this is half of the English marks. Anyone got any comments or experience of what is required here?
Also, do the schools take an average across all the tests (she's great at maths and reasoning) or would a 'fail' in one aspect scupper here completely?

mitbap, underdeveloped essay writing is to be expected with primary school pupils, as the National Curriculum doesn't include much if any extended writing. We had this issue with dd1 as well in fact most of what she ended up doing with the tutor was practice in structuring and writing essays, to the kind of standard that a good prep school would expect. Whether it will present a problem for senior school entrance depends on form of assessment used some schools use multiple-choice papers, which are much more state-school friendly, as they're aimed at measuring innate ability rather than the standard of teaching a child has received. IME most private school exams rely more on open-ended questions, where state-school pupils may be disadvantaged unless they've been helped to make up the gaps in the Y5/6 curriculum.

wrt to off-setting marks from one paper against another, you'd probably have to read the small print. Dd1's grammar school exams calculated the average of all four tests (Eng, Maths, VR and NVR), but also had a minimum standard for each paper.

Open ended questions like - "write a story about a lost dog" is a good test of imagination and writing skills, more than say doing a multiple choice set of questions but you need to practise and they need to be told what kind of words we do not use in written English such as trying to avoid "got", "nice" etc and if she isn't being told that at school then the tutor can help her with it.

I think you probably need to do okay in all papers. If someone is a maths genius but cannot write they would struggle in so many subjects at an academic school that it wouldn't be fair they were there. If someone is bright I think their natural ideas often shine out in stories even if they were never taught to spell or any grammar and even if they are writing things like "you was".

Thanks all. Now I'm worried. Also I found this link. I cannot imagine my dd writing an essay to the standards of the samples here - although there are lots of 'I's and speech marks which the tutor told her to avoid. What does anyone else think about the standard of these samples - is this the way all prep school kids perform?

These are v. good essays -- but bear in mind they're on a website that makes money from selling 11+ tutoring materials, so they're hardly going to put up the kind of essay that will make parents think, "Oh sure, my child could do that", are they?

Having said that, they probably are representative of a good 11+ applicant for the very academic schools -- the one about being alone in New York reminds me of my dd1's rather gothic taste in essay writing.

The thing that made the single biggest difference to dd1's style was me pointing out that you don't have to have a beginning, a middle and an end in the way suggested by the KS2 curriculum you can start the story right in the middle of the action, and slowly add information so that the reader gradually realises what's going on. We looked at a lot of book openings together Harry P is a good starting point! and she quite quickly liberated herself from the constraints of her previous rather clunky format of: "There were three/four/five children and their names were... and one day... " and then have to fit in the adventure and get everybody home in time for tea all in the space of one side of A4, which doesn't leave much time for good descriptive writing. If you can get her away from that, and encourage her to write short, very detailed descriptions of single incidents being chased, say, or being alone in the dark and concentrate on the description rather than the plot, you may find her writing style improves quite quickly.

That's good advice frogs.
Yes, that essay is quite good, certainly but I think not that unusual for bright 11 year olds. Don't panic. Just practise. My children at school were being prepared for those kinds of exams so were doing essays regularly to prepare so all you have to do is do the same preparation at home. There are people who put children into private primary schools just so they get ahead for 11+ state school exams which is not how traditionally most parents have done it (busily instead saving their money for the 11+ entry to private schools).

Hello again. DD has her first interview at Heathfield, Pinner. It's described as being with 2-3 other girls and a senior teacher for 40mins.
Anyone been through this and have any idea what form this interview will take?

When DS had his interview it was him by himself and it lasted about 30 mins and was also a maths test for him to verbally answer maths problems

It was with the Deputy Head

Good luck to your DD

What is her fav subject?

What does she l;ike to do in free time

Why does she want to go there

what is she looking forward to doing there

what extra cirricular stuff does she want to do

Dd1 had a group interview at Channing last year (with one other girl, I think). The London day schools seem to treat is as an oral test -- they show them pictures and ask them to talk about them. Dd1 had one picture that she described as 'some kind of victorian scene, with trains and people' and another one of a pie plate, which is a way of getting the children to think about fractions. She was asked about hobbies and what she did at the weekends ('played playstation and watched the Simpsons' being the WRONG answer here, 'practised my flute, did my homework and went to sailing club' being the right kind of answer!), but the 'chat' bit was definitely secondary to the knowledge based bit.

I'm not completely sure why they do the group thing except to save time -- maybe they want to see how the children co-operate with others? In which case I guess the idea is to be assertive enough that you do actually get to say something, but co-operative enough that the other person gets a look-in too.

hth

Most useful Frogs and RTKangaMummy. Anyone else with any info to share it'll be most gratefully recieved!

Anyone been to st. albans high school or have kids that go there. Thinking of Sending DD1 there, DD2 will follow next year and DD3 two years later. Any views appreciated

Thanks

Alibubbles will prob know it

My DD went to St Albans High School and I look after 4 of the teachers children. - Two of whom will hopefully go next September as long as they get in ( 4yrs+)

Any one got any idea about how many girls apply for senior schools each year - e.g.s being St Helen's, Royal Masonic, Heathfield (Pinner), Northwood College, St Margaret's (Bushey)?

I'm not sure. It's not as bad as people think because most are applying for a lot of schools. When my daughter was in Habs juniors and we weren't sure she'd pass for the seniors (she did) she sat at 11 for NLCS, St M bushey, Heathfield, St Helen's as well so would have been in the stats for applications for those but went to none. I was once told numbers of applicants per place but I've forgotten.

... and re Heathfield interview I have an appointment to speak with the Headteacher for 10 mins - what'll that be all about then?

We had that chat. I think my daughter went in with me too. It was just a chat. I wouldn't worry about it. I think they take most people who apply. I think the better private schools won't see the parents because then you get bias rather than appliation on the basis oif IQ irrespective of race, class etc so I tend to prefer schools that don't speak to parents but you can see why some private and state schools may prefer to see the parents. I think the Oratory and other state schools do that too.

Hi, I have a dilemma about moving away from London to Bushey. We are looking at a school in Bushey but not sure the best spot where to move into yo be near the school. Anyone knows this area to advice on pro and cons? I would like a village feel, nice and family orientated place. Also near to transport into London. Thank you so much