Independent Schools NW London / Herts

[mitbap]

We're looking for a girls senior school. dd is bright but probably not 'gifted'. Any recommendations?

Absolutely agree with RTKangaMummy. We have dismissed outright many fine schools purely on that basis. As a London commuter myself I hate the idea of consigning my dd at the tender age of 11 to the hell of a difficult journey for many years. Royal Masonic is the furthest away we are thinking - it is straight up the Metropolitan Line from us - but still concerned - I know how reliable it can sometimes not be. I'd like to avoid coaches partly because of additional cost but also because they involve extreme earliness because of many pick ups and are so inflexible.

Candidate list at the moment is:
NLC (although actually non of the family liked the atmosphere there)
St Helen's (whole family loved this place)

If they are aiming too high the next group is:
Northwood College
Heathfield
St Margaret's, Bushey

and then:
Royal Masonic
Peterborough and St Margaret's

Oh, and another concern I have is that it would be nice if a choice for dd1 is also a choice for dd2 - the practicalities of different schools being so difficult - but many don't seem to operate any form of sibling link according to official line - or do they?

I know at DH and DS school brothers are commoning there but sometimes brothers don't pass the exams

There isn't a way in the back door though if that is what you mean

And really if they don't pass the exam it prob isn't the right school for them iyswim

COs they will struggle and not thrive

My friend at st M Bushey is hoping DD2 will get in but actually DD2 is brighter than DD1

Some of DSs friends have gone to different state schools to older siblings cos it isn't the right school for them, different children different strengths and interests

like if one DD1 loves sports and one hates sports but loves music - different schools may be better for each one iyswim

I agree with your points RTKangaMummy and am in fact probably in same position as your friend using St M - although competition/quality of other applicants may not be the same each year. It's just I noticed that a lot of registration forms ask about connections with the school - which seemed rather worrying first time around and comforting for 2nd iyswim.

I have looked on the list of all the new boys with DS and only some of them have had or got brothers or cousins or uncles or dads who went to the school and some that have no connection iyswim

So you won't be alone

wrt sylvm's advice, you do get considered by all the schools you apply to. You don't have to express a preference, though all the schools do ask which others you're applying to. Dd1 was offered places at both the schools in one group that she applied to, which wouldn't happen if sylvm's theory of them only passing applications on if you didn't get a place was right.

Some of dd1's friends from private prep schools applied to far more schools than just the two we did. On the results date some of them had an impressive clutch of offers, and then had a week or so before having to make a final decision.

And in any case, your preference order needn't correspond to how academically prestigious a school is -- if dd1 hadn't got into the grammar school we would have chosen Channing over City of London, because I thought it was much more friendly and I liked the head better.

It has struck me that everyone taking part on this thread seems to have got their children into independent school or had a place (or places offered) or knows someone who has. This does not fit with my current perception that all the schools I'm considering will have 100's if not 1000's of girls applying and most of them have a small number of places - 70's about the most - and there'll possibly be an awful lot of girls brighter than my dd or just better prepared by prep schools.
So how hard is it - do most people get a place somewhere suitable - or are all the Mums who put their kids through this and they didn't get anything too traumatised to speak up!?

Frogs, I'm reassured by your comments about where you sit the exam not affecting the chance of getting offers etc. Mitbap, we've already been through this on the boys' side and ended up with offers at 3 independent schools and he certainly wasn't top of his class at his (state) primary school although probably in top half-dozen. I think it's very daunting at the outset but remember that many people are applying to lots of different schools. Our ds could only go to one school so that released two places for other people. However, I do wonder if it's harder for the girls as two of my friends dds didn't get any offers and they were both bright kids. Interested in this because we'll be going through the whole deal again next year with dd.

I think in general the more academic the school the harder to get in so those schools near the bottom there will be likely to be places at (which doesn't mean bottom of course in terms of rightness for a child, facilities etc).

It was unfortunate our daughters went to Habs and NLCS but the coaches left from the same point and 13 years later it actually was great. They had difference and independence and both were really lovely schools. I slightly prefer NLCS over Habs.

By the way the coach journeys were fine. They see other children on them, chat, sometimes do homework (I'm sure not allowed of course...)

mitbap, I certainly don't think most of these schools will have thousands of girls applying a few hundred seems to be the norm. Numbers of applicants seems to be more of an issue with the north london selective grammar schools HB, Latymer and QE Boys generally have 10 or more applicants for every place. But in the consortium private schools it's more like 3 to one, and not all of those will be first choice applicants.

Dd1 is naturally very academic and probably was at the top of her primary school class, but from observation most of the children we know who have applied have been offered one or more places, although not all at their first choice school. Clearly heads of prep schools know their market very well and are in a position to offer very specific advice in a way that state school heads can't and won't do. But I'd have thought that as long as your child is on course for at least some Level 5s in Y6, and you apply to a sensible range of schools not just the super-academic options, the odds are you'd be offered places at at least some of the schools. They all have a vested interest in talking themselves up, but in the end they need to get bums on seats. Common sense states there can only be a limited number of 11yo future Cambridge firsts whose parents have a spare 12K a year knocking around North London, so at least some of the schools must be catering for normal mortals.

Visited Royal Masonic at the weekend. Much liked by all the family although it is a bit of a long journey from where we are.
The do online maths, english and reasoning exams as well as a traditional piece of extended writing. Anyone know what the online tests are like?

We also visited Peterborough and St Margaret's - which is very small. It was hard to adjust expectations accordingly. In most cases I see that independent schools are less well equipped, particularly technology wise, (and if you don't look at the pool and the grounds!) than the state comprehensives available to us - which are fantastic in that respect. In fact, particularly looking back at out own experience pushing 30 years ago, dh and myself have been amazed by the quality of, and obvious investment in, our local state secondary schools (don't believe everything you read in the papers), and the enthusiasm and commitment of children and staff. Many of the independents also do not compare with the large comprehensives on subject choices either. At P and StM this was so very apparent that I went back a few stages in my certainty regarding why I'm thinking of going independent and what I'd be spending the money on. An independent school teacher we know says that state schools have a percentage of their budget dedicated only to technology purchases and so are further ahead that independent schools that may still be evaluating the issues and that it's not really relevant to quality of teaching. So we're back to small classes and kids that want to learn - well, P and St M seems to offer that - Oh and looking again at those league tables!

We know 2 girls at Royal Masonic both year 7.

One has been there since year 1 and the other started there in year 5

But the problem is the parents aren't the type to own up if anything is wrong

The girl who has been there since year 1 isn't very bright iyswim. So there is a very broad spectrum. That is why they started her so early so she wouldn't have to do exams etc. Well she would have to be able to keep up but not to be entered

Sorry that doesn't seem to make sense

Royal Masonic is great for nice girls who aren't that clever.
Re the comments about technology - how many gleaming PCs a comp has doesn't mean places at Oxbridge. But I certainly agree about Pet & St Ms.
Not true that schools like Habs and NLCS where my daughters went are worse than comps, howeever, for subjects and facilities and results. But definitely right that if you pay it isn't always going to be better in all respects.It's very wise to shop around.

The interesting issue is if they're very bright do you just send them to a state school as they'd get their AAA A levels anywhere and if they're not going to find their work very easy they might benefit more from a private school, smaller classes, individual attention etc

I never meant to suggest that the state comps can hold a candle to the likes of NLC and Habs in terms of overall results - but of course the comps in our LA are true non-selective community schools! I stick to my comments regarding facilities in so far as ICT suites, science labs etc. They are incredibly well catered for in our LA. Totally agree that technology for technologies sake does not equate to the best overall results.
Also agree totally that the super bright kids may do well anywhere and it's those slightly lower down the scale that may most benefit from what the independent sector offers. However competion seems so fierce (going on the vast number of families turning up to open days) that I find it hard to imagine most of these schools needing to consider taking on any but the most academically endowed. That is my worry.

What are your local comprehensives, Mitbap? I noticed that Nower Hill, where both my stepsisters went many years ago, did really well in recent GCSEs. I think it's a Beacon School - though I'm not sure what that means.

It's definitely true that the smaller independent schools don't always have such great facilities -whereas the bigger ones have fantastic resources compared to at least my local state schools. NLCS and Habs - fantastic grounds, beautiful old building as well as modern theatre, art block, music block with soundproofed rooms, swimming pool etc. None of that at my local comp.

Again, I said if you don't see the pools and the grounds! i think if you blindfolded me and let me walk around the main teaching rooms/corridors I'd probably be hard pressed to guess which scool is independent and which state.
We are in Harrow LA. Nower Hill, Bentley Wood and Hatch End would be the ones potentially available to us. Nower Hill has a very good rep (although we are not in a linked primary and are rather dodgy on distance). They are trying very hard to compete with the independent sector (which they all have to because of the 12+ thing in Harrow - the primary schools loose a lot of kids at the end of year 6) to the point of focusing very strongly on the Latin, Greek and Classical Civilisation departments at open days! Of course they have absolutely no grounds what so ever - not sure that's at all important.

Further to that we were VERY worried about Hatch End (our linked school) because from the outside the buildings and fabric of the place are sooo unattractive. However having seen more of the inside, the people and the facilities we do feel a lot less concerned. The bricks and mortar and the number of gardeners required are also not the point.

p.s. I would of course take the blindfold off once inside the school corridors!

You must be very close to my parents then, Mitbap - I went to Grimsdyke before NLCS, so Hatch End would have been my link school. The grounds aren't lovely there but as you say, that may not be important.

Ilive very near St. Paul's (boys) now and the size of their playing fields etc leaves me open-mouthed - however, since neither of my sons is in the least bit sporty, this is unlikely to be important in their education (they're not likely to be going to St. Paul's, either, for all sorts of reasons....)

It's good that they are offering classics etc now.

Royal Masonic does have beautiful grounds and facilities

DS absolutely loves LATIN he has just started it in year 7 at indep

If you think your DD may be interested in it then deffo look for a school that does it.

My dd2 still has Bentley Wood (LA girls school - totally non-selective) at the top of her list. She thinks people were happiest, most friendly and approachable here - and they have a lot of green space. The point being there are so many ways of looking at all this that I think my head is starting to spin.

Some of the independent schools say you do not have to do anything additional about scholarships - they are simply awarded for the highest marks in the enterance test. Others say send a letter with registration if you want your dd to be considered for a scholarship. Should we do that, what should you say in the letter? Does anyone think that applying for a scholarship will disadvantage dd in any way if she doesn't actually shape up to that sort of level?

My daughter's friend got a scholarship to NLCS. I don't think she did special exams. I would check with each school. No way would you be disadvantaged if you asked about that. They're more likely to want you.

You could ask the school how many applicants per place. If most children try for at least 3 schools then divide it by 3. It's not as bad as it looks. I would have thought if you applied for a range of schools from academic to good with those not so bright you're likely to get in somewhere plus the comprehensives might be fine too from what you've said. Worth comparing the destinations of leavers, how many go to which universities.