Cant get DC into a faith school

[angelfireabbey]

I know this is possibly the wrong place because it seems the whole of MN is atheist or totally secular. However, there is a lot of discussion by MNers here about getting intofaith schools ( often without any faith because they are good schools).

I am a little bit fed up with it. I take my faith seriously. I take my DC to church and we believe. I wanted my DC to have a faith education. There are only two faith schools where I live. They are oversubscribed by parents who seem to have suddenly aquired a need to attend church to get a vicars signiture.

I had my pastors signiture but we didnt get a place. So instead my DC is stuck in a state school where the teachers and other children laugh and say that they have " imaginary friends" ( or simply they are nutters!) and that they believe in fairly stories etc. Sound familiar MN parents? ( I bet you wouldnt say it if someone were of say Jewish or Muslim faith though would you?). It is offensive you know.

They have an atheist teacher who clearly knows next to nothing about Christianity.

I would settle for any faith school although there are no others ( of any faith ) within 40 miles of us.

So how do I get into one? I have asked my church community. I know they are doing their best and we are praying hard but I am sure some savvy non religious types must know more here. So I am asking.
I see thread on thread where parents are scamming the system.So how does a genuine person get in?

Thanks.

All I know is that at the faith secondary my BFs kids went to/still go to, which is also the one we went to, they do several religions although when it comes to GCSE they do the Christian perspective (but have to consider other Christian religions not just their own) and the ethics thing. At the RC primary my kids all attended they learned about all the major faiths and also some less major ones such as Shinto. At DSs CofE school they cover all the major religions also. From a neutral perspective.

when pupils have no faith background at all ( which is many) then it is hard enough getting them to understand one faith sufficiently to pass a GCSE, let alone two. They do get confused.

I would suggest that if they find comparative religious studies confusing at GCSE level, they may also wish to avoid the study of history, unless they are following a Govian jolly hockey sticks wasn't the Empire great curriculum,

Heaven forefend that teenagers might be taught some critical thinking skills.

Rabbit: All I know is that at the faith secondary my BFs kids went to/still go to, which is also the one we went to, they do several religions

Yes, but you can't judge all faith schools by your own, because they're all free to follow their own RE syllabus. That's exactly why people are campaigning for RE to be brought under the wing of the National Curriculum - it's basic quality control.

I was under the impression that since the investigation into the governance and teaching in the Birmingham schools OFSTED are expecting schools to ensure pupils are exposed to other religions as part of the emphasis on preparing pupils for life in modern multi cultural, multi faith Britain? I recall a christian Faith school wingeing that they were going to have to invite a Muslim speaker in

I am afraid that if you look at the RE curriculum of the prominent indies eg spgs.org/academic/departments/religious-studies/ this is an area where they are preparing their pupils a great deal more effectively than any school adopting wazzups narrow minded focus, or does he think there is one rule for the clever and rich ?

^Religious Studies at St. Paul’s is about giving girls the chance to look outside themselves. To look beyond Brook Green to the cremation pyres on the banks of the River Ganges, the prayer flags fluttering across the hills of Tibet and the black Kabbah in the heart of Mecca: to look at the women standing at the foot of the cross or facing martyrdom in the arena. To look beyond questions such as ‘How long should my essay be?’ to ‘Is there such a thing as “right”‘ and ‘Does God exist?’ And to look beyond the hymns we sing in assembly to the story of Christianity in the West and the doctrine that lies behind those hymns.

We draw on the girls’ natural enthusiasm for meeting new ideas. We don’t give them answers; we give them information, raise questions and encourage them to draw their own conclusions. We introduce them to great works of religious art, music and literature and take them to see different examples of religious architecture. They meet sacred texts and people of faith: history, myths and stories that have inspired peoples through history. We look at the impact of religion on history and culture; yes, in Europe but also beyond.

We ask them to reflect, to recognise their own fundamental outlooks and be challenged by the ideas of their peers. We give them the conceptual tools to think about ethical issues such as abortion and euthanasia and the philosophical tools to be able to analyse arguments, whether these are concerned with arguments for the existence of God or the relationship between science and religion. They will encounter philosophical problems from Plato’s Cave to Philippa Foot’s trolley problem and John Searle’s Chinese Room experiment. They will meet the ideas of Augustine and Aquinas as well as those of Wittgenstein and Kant. In a world where the understanding of religion seems increasingly important, not less, we respect faith but are not afraid of questions.^

Woodayaknow I agree that RE should be properly brought under the NC. My point was merely that you can't tar all faith schools with the brush provided by the most extreme examples which is what some people seem determined to do. The ones I have direct experience of are nothing like the extreme examples and I suspect, although I do not know, that they are more representative of the majority. If you want a thread just bashing faith schools then please be my guest and carry on but that is as much an example of extremist views as the extremist faith schools are.

I am also a bit about talkin's determination to out the appalling behaviour she witnessed on a flight recently from a load of faith school teenage boys down to their being attendees of a faith school, rather than them being teenagers or boys. I too was on a flight with a load of teenagers on a school trip a couple of weeks ago flying from Berlin to London. They behaved atrociously. I suspect this wasn't anything to do with the type of school they attended but more to do with them being overwrought after a school trip and the horrors of Tegel which is enough to make anyone go a bit red Ross to be honest. Their trip had clearly been something to do with music but I'm not now thinking all musicians are badly behaved. I just think they were overtired and possibly the staff were exhausted.

I am afraid that if you look at the RE curriculum of the prominent indies eg spgs.org/academic/departments/religious-studies/ this is an area where they are preparing their pupils a great deal more effectively than any school adopting wazzups narrow minded focus, or does he think there is one rule for the clever and rich ?

That is falling for the hype and hard sell poisonwoodlife.

I have my DC in a top independent school. I wouldnt have left the job to a state school. Yes, they do prepare the pupils well, but not quite like the advert you quote.

To look beyond questions such as How long should my essay be? to Is there such a thing as right and Does God exist? And to look beyond the hymns we sing in assembly to the story of Christianity in the West and the doctrine that lies behind those hymns.

This is precisely what I wanted for my DC, not many faiths slotted into three years education. My DC also experience proper old fashioned assemblies where religious music ( Christian ofcourse) can be explored. You do not tend to find that in a state school idea of RE. All of it done in the school's Chapel and with a Chaplain.

We introduce them to great works of religious art, music and literature and take them to see different examples of religious architecture. They meet sacred texts and people of faith: history, myths and stories that have inspired peoples through history. We look at the impact of religion on history and culture; yes, in Europe but also beyond

They do this too, but from a Christian perspective. Christian architecture, Christ in the Christian tradition, missionaries, the "myths" and haggada of the Bible stories etc.

ask them to reflect, to recognise their own fundamental outlooks and be challenged by the ideas of their peers. We give them the conceptual tools to think about ethical issues such as abortion and euthanasia and the philosophical tools to be able to analyse arguments, whether these are concerned with arguments for the existence of God or the relationship between science and religion. They will encounter philosophical problems from Platos Cave to Philippa Foots trolley problem and John Searles Chinese Room experiment. They will meet the ideas of Augustine and Aquinas as well as those of Wittgenstein and Kant. In a world where the understanding of religion seems increasingly important, not less, we respect faith but are not afraid of questions.

None of this falls outside what I want my DC to learn. Plato to Aquinas and even Descartes (who isnt on that list). They all have a place in the Christian perspective - and I am happy for my DC to learn that. This is what I call giving my DC a firm foundation , rather than exposing them to many faiths.

This "closed mindedness" you constantly accuse me of is not actually related to the matters of philosophy and ethics. I will say again, I do not like the social agenda's of the state school system. That is what I removed them from

I know you won't, but I do wish you would say what the social agendas you object to so much are. You referred to them, I think, as "brainwashing"

Hakluyt - yes I did refer to them as "brainwashing" and part of that did include some facets of comparative faith education when my DC were in state school but much of it was PHSME /SEAL and similar in a broader sense also which I have already said. I will not be drawn further as you know.

I know. Which, I am afraid, leaves people to draw some rather unpleasant conclusions............

I know. Which, I am afraid, leaves people to draw some rather unpleasant conclusions............

But they would be wrong - just as they have been about my "closed mindedness"

It is an issue of principle for me. Its about how I want my DC to explore ideas and think for themselves.

If you say you feel children are brainwashed into certain social agendas in state schools then refuse to say what those agendas are, the obviously conclusion is that it is the more "liberal" agendas, for want of a better word, that you are "protecting" your children from.

I will not say what agenda's because I do not consider it relevant. It is certainly not relevant here on this thread.

As I said, and I am sure you will appreciate , this is about principle not necessarily content of any agenda. Several MNers have mentioned wanting their DC to develop "critical thinking" skills. Thats all I want too.

We'll, if you want them to develop critical thinking skills, why do you think they are not capable of absorbing information about more than one faith? Your position practically defines cognitive dissonance.

wuzzup complete rubbish, my DDs attended a "top" ten (as measured by various league tables) indie not too far from SPGS and what is described there is exactly what was delivered at their school. Not surprising given that the student body is highly diverse and many, like my DDs, have a background living or growing up in a different culture. One of my DDs left with A*s in Gcse Religion and ethics and A level Philosophy of Religion so could not have had more experience of what they offer, and deliver. So what is this "top" school that does it differently?

The point I was making is that these young women leave equipped for careers in a global environment working with and in other cultures, but that should not be the preserve of those educated in the top indies.

it's funny how independent schools are always "top". There must be a lot of them jostling for the slot!

Haklyt I hope including the term in parenthesis conveyed my cynicism on the matter.

Certainly did!

We'll, if you want them to develop critical thinking skills, why do you think they are not capable of absorbing information about more than one faith? Your position practically defines cognitive dissonance

There is no conflict in my position, just I am not fully elaborating it here.

I do notthink they are incapable of absorbing the information. I do not think it is an appropriate way to go about it. I think comparative faiths ( in a similar way to something talkinpeace has mentioned with her plane flight) is taught without any recourse to critical reflection. However, I do stand by my experience that the majority of pupils do have difficulties grasping the ideas associated with teaching multiple faiths and diverse cultures and get confused. That may in part be because of how it is taught ( and that is constrained by various agenda's in state schools)

I also said that I do not think RE should be taught in schools. I do think philosophy and ethics would yeild a more rounded person. Now I can substantiate that but to do so would mean several pages more of posts and no doubt lots more rude and unthinking comments from various posters accusing me of things they are assuming , on a thread that seems to have been hijacked here anyway.

As I have said before ( seem to be constantly repeating myself), I could write a book and have an academic debate where the ideas could be discussed within an agreed framework where some comments made against me personally (by people who do not know me) would not be acceptable.

Posters want to have a debate it seems but as soon as somoene makes a suggestion that might challenge their accepted view of how things should be they get a little abusive, or impolite, at least. I have other things to do which I need to prioritise over MN debates.

I at least hold in principle the right of everyone to express their view even if I do not agree with it. I would further defend their right to their views even if I do not share them.

Wozzup you clearly don't know much about state schools faith or otherwise. My DDs- who are very musical admittedly - no longer even go to a faith school but have been exposed to and enabled to study a wide range of Christian music. At a state school. And my old school - state - was not only renowned for its general music provision it had a link with the royal school of church music. And my state school kids are the mainstay of our church music group, which is led by current and former teachers from state schools.

Hak - there is one thing I do think is tantamount to brainwashing going on at the moment, happens every year round this time and isn't confined to non faith or faith schools, state or private, and that's the red poppy thing. My kids and I wear white Poppies, partly although not wholly because my dad who was in WWII always wore a white poppy. And the looks we get. Not good. I can't think of any other brainwashing other than 'science is the only important thing' which is also not confined to one particular type of school or one sector.

The point I was making is that these young women leave equipped for careers in a global environment working with and in other cultures, but that should not be the preserve of those educated in the top indies

But it is and they do. This is largely because independent schools can devise their own curriculum and are free to teach more or less what they want in the way they wish to teach it. When you choose such a school you buy the kind of education they provide.

They are not constrained by the 1992 revisions of the education act. They are not constrained by any National Curriculum or SACRE specification (in the case of religion). They are not political footballs governed by the latest whims of whoever is in power or whichever education minister wants to promote whatever agenda or dictat, or teaching by whatever methods (be they largely ineffectual or at least inefficient - according to the latest research article today).

But that is how things are.

Cognitive dissonance is the mental conflict which most parents of state school DC are forced into when they accept the curriculum given to their DC (and they attempt to defend it ) because they do not have the choice

Wozzup you clearly don't know much about state schools faith or otherwise.

Another assumption.

If you want to know rabbit - ask. Do not assume that I do not know. That is arrogance.

Would it not have been better to say " where does your experience of stateschols come from wazzup?" than to stride in with "you clearly do not know...."

Maybe YOU do not know?