school fees - huge increase next year

[helenmc]

I feel very mean moaning about this as we are very fortunate enough to be in the position of paying for school fees. But we have just got next years fees, and the fees have got up 27% again. Since my eldest started the fees have almost doubled!! The governors quote they have gone up in accordance with the Independent SChools Bursars Association, but surely £280 a term is extortiant. Should I be looking else where?

£280 a term sounds very reasonable to me!! Where I live its more like £1200 a term per child!!

the best private/public schools near where i am are £10,000pa! that is secondary level however.
whereabouts do you live, helenmc?

My daughter's school fees nearly always go up by about £200-300 a term, my son's school isn't so bad, they say they try to keep the fees the lowest in the are (Herts) but then you get a book bill for £300 and then a 'green bill" with all the extras added on. The latest a COMPULSORY biology field trip over a bank holiday, cost £150 added to the bill. Theatre trips, again compulsory and just added to the bill!

In the three years my daughter has been at her school the fees have risen from a resonable £2000 a term to over £2600 a term.

Currently £1870 per term for year 2 (age 7). R

Good grief- some of the prices you've quoted are more than my rent for a year! I hope the education they deliver reflects their price tags!

Does anyone mind if I highjack the thread a bit and widen this to a state/private school debate? I'm really fascinated by this topic! Just out of interest, why have people chosen to go private/state, if it's not too nosy to ask? Principle? Lack of/lots of finance? Are the state schools in your area no good? Family tradition?

Me first, so you know I'm prepared to answer the question!

The reasons mine will go to state school are:
1 We're skint
2 My mum would turn in her grave if I sent them to a private school
3 The state sector didn't do too badly by me, all things considered, so I'm hoping it'll not do too badly by my kids.
4 I want them to learn that all people are basically equal and deserve to be respected and valued and to be able to talk to people from all types of social background. I think that being in an environment that promotes this just through the make-up of its intake is one of the few genuine, if incidental, advantages of some state schools- one that is only rarely replicated in private schools.

Having said all that, I'm v scared that the local schools will do appallingly by my kids! So many horror stories abound... I'm just hoping that I strike lucky and get them in somewhere that has a nice atmosphere, no bullying and teaches them the 3 Rs. Surely that's not too much to ask?

This is an interesting one! I am a teacher (secondary) and I would never send my child to a private school.
Reasons

• our local comprehensiva has results better than many private schools
• I am an exam marker and there are a lot of parents out there who are wasting their money on private education from what I see in exam papers! -principle - like ScummyMummy I want my kids to realise that all people are equal and it doesnt depend on money. -dh was privately educated and hated every minute of it
• i have a lot more interesting things I would rather do for my children with the money we would spend on school

Just my 2p, luckily it's a moot point as we couldnt afford it anyway!

We could never afford private education and in principle I'm against it. But, and it's a big 'but', we have always been fortunate enough to live in areas with good schools. My dd's state school is always in the top five in Scotland, better than many private schools. So, my principles have never been tested.

However, we are about to move abroad where my dd's will have to be privately educated at a cost of £15,000 a year each. I simply can't imagine having that much money to spare so it's lucky DH's employer is picking up the tab!!

I don't actually think that money comes into it, well the cost does, and for some of us it is a struggle.
Both my children got into the 5th best comprehensive school in the country. My daughter was 10th out of 1700 children for 90 places, we were thrilled when she won a place, as well as three other private schools, she had 2 fairly goodyears there until she became ill, they were totally unsupportive, she had 4 months off school. They kept saying she's very bright, don't worry about her. I wasn't worried abpout the academic side, (she went in for exam week and got 90% average). I was concerned about the pastoral and emotional side of things. The attitude was so uncaring and I was a governor at the school as well!
My son hated it from day one, again a bright child, but was made to feel inferior when he only achieved 80% average.

They had both been to private school until 7 years old, had to move as the schol closed and we couldn't afford the nearest private schools so they went into the state system. They absolutely loved their state junior school, I was very pleased with it, but we didn't actually get offered a local secondary school, only the selective ones they sat for on academic merit. Fotunately this school was one they thought they wanted to go to, it is huge, 1400 children! They hated the size and the atmosphere there.

We moved them both at 13 and they have never looked back, my daughter says she should have been at her independent school all along and my son too loves every minute of his. The schools are not full of people with too much money, there are lot of people who have their children bussed in from a 20 mile radius and really struggle to pay the fees. They are ordinary people who want a good eductaion for their children, wityh other extra's.
I was state educated, so was my husband, but we were lucky enough to go to grammar schools - Single sex schools too. Nowadays there is so much competition for the remaining single sex schools, the government is well aware that for every place at thes schools there are over 20 children wanting a place, it's high time they took notice and did something about it, instead of forcing people to pay for their choice.

Sorry the £280 was the increase PER TERM for the same year 1 that's £1600 a term for reception and year 1 and then for year 4 is £1800 going up to £2600 for secondary.We live in East Anglia and not in posh Cambridge. I'm scared they getting hiking up the bills and we won't afford to have the choice. Also having 3 dd really makes the bills mount up. The local primary schools are big 500 pupils and have ok to good results. But we have no chance of getting our 3 into the only good secondary school. We're just having serious doubts on what are reasons are for sending the girls and what reasons do others have. We're not madly rich, live in a 3 bed semi and we both work. We have self catering holidays, don't go out and my luxury is a cleaner. I'd like to widen the debate and ask why do we feel we need to send our kids there. I had private education til I was 11 and then went to the comprehensive (it was Dartmoor and the ONLY secondary school), I did all right nothing brilliant and went on and got a science degree at Leicester. We had mobile classrooms, classes of 35,toilets you never dared go in for fear of being mugged and the teachers went on strike even in those days. I wasn't that happy - perhaps I'm just trying to stop this happening to my girls - ever mum wants the best - just very very confused at the moment.

I am in the very fortunate position of living in Scotland which, by all accounts has a far better education system ( and no I am not a Scottish Nationalist). Ofcourse there are private schools but only one or two people I know privately educate their children, usually with the statement that the schools my children go to are 'substandard'.

What happens often though is that those parents who are not happy with certain subjects in their child's education will opt for private tutoring, therefore they believe they are getting the best of both worlds. I certainly was state educated and my childen infact go to the same schools I did and I am happy with my academic achievement.

One of my best friends lives in an area where nearly all her friends children are privately educated in a variety of different schools. I felt there was enormous pressure on her child to sit entrance exams for various scools with a hope of getting into THE best one. I have to say that I think she is also under enormous pressure hoping that her child will remain an 'achiever'. If I lived where she does and I could afford it I am sure I would be doing the same.

My only observation of friends who have moved their children form our state scool to private school are under the illusion that their children will attain better grades.
I am afraid that in some instances you either have academic ability or you don't, and no amount of private education will alter that sad fact!

mears - agree with you about the academic ability bit. You need only to look at the royal family to see that exemplified.

I am anti-private education for pretty much the same reasons that have already been stated and would like to think I would not send my daughter to a private school even if I could afford it.

However, I did apply to a school outside the catchment area because the parents at the nearest school looked pretty scary to me! Plus, I felt I wanted my daughter to go to a school where her academic ability (to whatever degree that is) would be encouraged and that she would not be made to feel a swot if she enjoyed learning. Came in for a bit of stick from my, former infant teacher, mother for that (removing brighter "middle class" child from "poor" school = bad for everyone).

Just a few observations about private education - ex pupils do seem to be more confident. They do seem to have more of a sense of "can do anything" about them and that they "deserve" to do well. I'm generalising but that's my experience. I'm not necessarily saying this is good thing either.

Plus, seem to have a broader education, more Classical knowledge etc.

Out of interest, has anyone sent their child to a faith school despite being non-believer/non practicing? This is the issue that really winds me up, probably because I went to a Catholic school.

Am now completely a non believer and wouldn't dream of wanting my child to be educated in (as opposed to educated about) a faith of any sort, however good the reputataion of the school. It's bad enough that she comes home now singing "Clap your hands if you're a friend of Jesus" - I have to constantly battle agianst this indoctrination and this is a non denominational state school!

But how do people afford private education unless they are relatively well off? Using Helenmc's example, if you have four children like we do, say with two in primary and two at secondary level, thats £26K a year schools fees out of taxed income. That's more than the average wage! Do many people really have that sort of money floating about? I'd struggle to even earn £20,000pa so schools fees would be out of the question.

As Mears says, Scotland seems to be better off educationally, and doesn't appear to have the problems of English schools such as being fully subsrcibed so you have to send your child further away or of not getting into your local secondary. I don't understand how people are refused places at their lcoal school, in England. Are children not entitled to go to the school designated for their catchment area? Or is this just selection by another name? Although we do have a choice most people I know just opt for their local school. Our senior school is better equipped than the nearest private school, too, which has led to parents deciding not to opt for private education. It's just a pity all schools are not at the same standard, because that is what all our children deserve.

Hmmmm... As dd is only 14 months it's a while till I need to start really worrying about this one - but as a secondary school teacher I have to have my twopennyworth!
I've always been against private education on the grounds that those with power will never REALLY take improving state schools seriously until they have to send their own children there - and I would never teach in one.

That said I have always said that if need be I would send a child to one as I'm all too aware that there are some DIRE state schools.

My main point is that whilst there are some lousy state schols there are also some amazing , brilliant ones with great teachers - further down the thread a few people seem to be equating teachers/schools who didn't care with state schools - not true and possibly not what you meant to do? It's no doubt easier to be a good teacher with small, motivated classes - but 70% of us 'care' despite sometimes dodgy circumstances ( I'm the first to admit that there are some lousy and lazy teachers - I'm actually FOR more stringent appraisal! - but my guess is that they're spread pretty evenly through out the system)
I teach in an inner city school - but one which is actually quite pleasant as the majority of students are Hindu . Three of our students have recently taken part in a swap with 3 public school pupils for some television documentary - and talkig to our kids after it they were struck by
a) how amazing the facilites were there
b) how boring the lessons were - the teachers didn't have to 'try' because the kids were all motivated - they could just dish up dry, boring lessons and ''get away with it'' - whereas we can't - the kids just wouldn't concentrate!
Now I'm not trying to say that all lessons in public schools are boring - not at all - just that
the whole area is a completly mixed bag and whilst you can talk about the rights and wrongs of a particualr school for a particualr child - I'm not sure it's very sensible to talk about whether private education is 'right' or wrong per say for a given child...

Had my daughter remained at the state school she would still have been expected to get 10 grade A's at GCSE, the same as she is predicted to get at her private school. It wouldn't matter where she went to school, that's the sort of child she is, she will achieve whatever, as someone further down said.
But, if you ask her where she'd rather be, she can't exactly tell you why, but she knows that she's in the right place.

Yes, I believe private education can give you an edge in confidence etc. I am still a governor of a state school so I see the difference. The girls at the private school have far more poise and self assurance, at a risk of being told I'm a snob, it gives them a bit of' breeding' they are constantly told, you will succeed, you are young women, etc.They are sent out into the world far better equipped to cope with all ssorts of situations, well, that's my opinion and experience. It is not a pressure to succeed, but they are encouraged to achieve as much as possible, but with a good all rounder bit thrown in.

I just wish I had made the decision to send her at 11, but despite that, the teachers say it is as though she has been there all her life, and it wouldn't make any difference to her academic ability.

I know that my son has been damaged by his experience at state secondary, it shattered his self esteem and confidence, it has taken nearly two years of hard work on behalf of the committed caring staff at his new school to start to produce some work of a reasonable standard, hopefully not to late!

SueDonim - they become childminders! Being very flippant here but, I was in the situation where I was paying £350.00 per month to my childminder and claiming WFTC. She was then using the income from childminding my daughter plus other kids to pay for her son's private education. Along with her husband working 6 days a week. I calculated that she was earning more than me by looking after my child - going off thread a bit here, I realise, but something seemed a little absurd about the situation.

Tinker, dare I say it...I am a registered childminder, what's wrong in a childminder sending her children to private school? - Don't worry, that is only tongue in cheek!! I know what you mean, I work for teachers at my daughters independent school, and yes, I probably earn more than they do, mind you I provide a first class child care service, (you may have seen evidence of my feelings about it on various discussions before., childcare is my passion.
It must seem very odd to the teachers who's children I look after, I drive a new Mercedes M class, and ski three times a year, but look after their kids!! I just love lookibg after little ones and don't want to do nothing, it is great as I work term time only. I am in the process of having a web site designed, I'll give you dertails when it is finished.!

Thanks for your comments ladies. I think it's the confidence and self-reassureance I'm looking for. My dd is a timid child (see thread on not wanting to got to parties) and I worry she'll just get lost in a large class. Her school also becomes single sex after 11 and they have personal tutors (much better than trying to chat to a stroppy teenager about life). But I too am angry that our education system is so polarised. And paying twice - I'd love the monay we're spending to be in my pension fund. As something like the 5th richest nation why are so many of our schools so bad. And what should we be doing to make it better.... our kids deserve better and every kids should have a decent education. Feeling quite militant now. Happy Easter by the way.

My DH went to Kings in Canterbury and loved it, I went to comprehensive. My DS goes to a private school. He is in a class of 11, there are two classes of year 2 children and they mix for some subjects like sport and music only.

He gets a large amount of attention from his teacher. Each child works at their own pace in individual maths and english work books. They read with the teacher every day and he chooses a book to bring home whenever he needs to.

I am told what he has eaten each day. How he has behaved every day and how he is progressing. The teacher is always available to speak to me.

The other children in the class are articulate, well spoken. There are few well off families some look like they struggle to be there.

I pulled DS from local state school after a term for various reasons, one being that we inherited some money which was helpful. R

Batters, don't get me wrong, I certainly do not subscibe to the school of thought(scuse the pun) that believes paying for it means the best. I have experienced poor value private schools, and am well aware of a few of them.

When I said I don't think money comes into it, I meant when you have to do the best for your child, you don't think about the money, We certainly didn't. We knew we had to do something there and then for our child who was in a state of near nervous breakdown. We would be happy to sell our house if need be, and it has come close a few times. With two lots of school fees, I also often wonder how we are going to manage, but we do, and it's worth every penny for our children's happiness.
We are also very grateful that their happiest primary years were spent in a state Junior school, my son often says, I wish I was back at Junior school, life was so easy and uncomplicated. I glad they both enjoy school, I certainly did and I went to 11 schools! (Service brat)

Both my children go to the local state primary school, and I expect they will go to the local secondary school. (I went to both state and private schools, and my DH to grammar school so between us we cover the range!). I agree with comments that academically many children, though not all, will do pretty much the same in either type of school. You get good and bad teachers in both sectors. What no-one has mentioned, and this would be my main reason for sending them to private school, is the huge range of other activities the private sector can offer - after-school activities, better sports, music, arts and so on. These are areas where the over-stretched state schools just can't compete.

However, the main reason that keeps them at state school (and I guess we could afford private if we downsized our house etc) is that they are part of the local community. They have friends where they live, they can knock about with them in the holdays, cycle up to the local playground etc, without me having to run a taxi service round the county. I want them to feel part of their community and to have local roots. If you take them out (and for us that would mean a 30-min drive to school rather than a 5-minute cycle ride or 2 min drive if its raining!) that is a major dislocation.

What does anyone else think about these things?