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Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

school fees - huge increase next year

133 replies

helenmc · 30/03/2002 11:52

I feel very mean moaning about this as we are very fortunate enough to be in the position of paying for school fees. But we have just got next years fees, and the fees have got up 27% again. Since my eldest started the fees have almost doubled!! The governors quote they have gone up in accordance with the Independent SChools Bursars Association, but surely £280 a term is extortiant. Should I be looking else where?

OP posts:
Batters · 03/04/2002 18:46

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Rhiannon · 03/04/2002 19:30

When we visited 3 state primaries when DS was 3 one new Head Teacher admitted that their results were in her words "appalling" "but I'm going to change all that". We didn't want to take this gamble and were glad we didn't, it is no different now, 4 years later. R

bayleaf · 03/04/2002 19:32

Ks - the kids I'm talking abot were born in England - their 'pidgin' English has little to do with their Asian family origins!
Those children who come over from India etc do get extra help - but not the ones I'm talking about - altho they are often ESL in that they speak another language at home thus their English is very 'thin'. If you speak to them they sound absolutely fluent ( if grammatically dodgy!)but thier vocabulary is actually very limited away from everyday usage. Mind you I dare say that could be said of many white working class children.
As I teach French ( so hear lots of foreign dodgy grammar most of the time!)I only correct students ''en passant'' in tutor time or when chatting in the corridor - and usually make a joke of it - they roll their eyes but humour me on the whole!

ks · 03/04/2002 19:54

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ks · 03/04/2002 19:56

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Rozzy · 03/04/2002 20:16

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bayleaf · 03/04/2002 20:42

I have never told a student that their grammar was 'not good enough' altho I accept that the mere fact that I question it might make them think that.
I always correct with humour in a light way rather than telling a student that what they have said is 'wrong' - and I always accept their choice of language code if it is between themselves rather than to me BUT my big 'THING' with all this is that like the ex boyfriend who I referred to below, I think it is part of my 'duty' as an educator to make them aware that they are speaking a variety of English that would be 'looked down on' in certain situations ( applying for professional positions etc - and I'm not saying that this is right or wrong - just that in happens!) and that they should be aware of the difference between 'casual/ familiar' language and standard English - so that they can actually choose which one to use. Most of the students I teach start of not having that choice as they are unaware that their speech would ever be considered 'wrong' by anyone.

Whilst students egos can undoubtedly be fragile - and I spend the day doleing out ridiculous amounts of praise to motivate reluctant learners - I don't honestly feel any child has been crushed by my pickyness about prepositions -and by the by I was told many things on my PGCE which were frankly b***ks!

Rozzy · 03/04/2002 20:47

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Rozzy · 03/04/2002 20:51

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ks · 03/04/2002 22:36

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tigermoth · 04/04/2002 08:46

Phew, what a lot is being covered in this thread. Having just read it from beginning to end (very quickly), can I just pick up on one or two points?

Firsty, I don't think I've ever read a mumnset message that says ' I will send my baby/toddler to the local state nursery etc because I want to to support the state system and my principles stop me from going private. It is not just a question of doing the best for my 2 year old - I am confident that with my support, they will thrive wherever they go. Has anyone here rejected a private nursery, monetessori education or a nanny for these reasons? Why should different principles apply to a reception year child? Let them take their chances at the local state primary etc - does two years make so much difference?

Tinker, you will not like this, but I am one of those parents who sent my child to a 'good' church school without being overtly religious.
My reasons were, yes, I wanted to do the best for my child. However, when I filled in the application form, I made a great point of not putting a desire for a christian education as a reason for sending my child there. Instead I centred on the strong sense of community found at the school. Rather tellingly, in our two hour interview with the head, we were not asked once if we were practising christians. And we did not say we were. All we were asked was if we would be willing for our son to take part in christian services - and we were told it was our right to refuse. Our son has not been christened or baptised either.

The school has high expectations of all pupils both academecally and behaviourwise. There is no playfighting in the playground for instance. I do not put this down to its christian ethos alone, it is rather a strong emphasis on community feeling and doing unto others etc. These high expectations extend to parents, too. It is carefully noted how much you support the school and your child. Obviously it does not take a christian belief to produce this ethos, but it just so happpens in our area that the other primaries to the best of my knowledge, are not like this.

The not-so-good state primary my son previously
attended had great teachers - we knew some as friends. They did not send their children to the school and said its problems were worsening. The problem was the weak and jobsworth head. If the teachers, there every day, could not change the situation, what hope is there for a humble working parent who only gets to visit the school sporadically? Yes, I tried to join the PTA. It took months before my numerous messages were returned.

Yes, I agree parents should take some responsibilty for educating their children and changing the system from within. But how much day to day suport can I give my son? I have a toddler and while he is up and running around (ie most of the time) it is hugely difficult to sit and work quietly with the oldest. And I have just the two. How do bigger families cope?

I've got more to say. I wish every school in the state system was excellent, don't we all? I cannot afford to go private, so, as a pragmatist, do not consider it. I do believe in doing the best for my children, though.

As for the twin topic of accent, I will post somthing later I hope - it is a very interesting discussion to someone like me who was sent to elecution lessons!

jhp · 04/04/2002 10:15

I was educated privately from 2-18y and there were so many things I hated about my schools that I always swore that I'd send my kids to state schools (have to admit to having reservations about that now!).

On the whole accent/standard English debate as someone who was brought up with a distinctly RP voice I'm aware of "toning down" my natural accent in many situations as I'm sure it gets many people's backs up, and I worry that they'll think I'm some stuck-up middle-class cow! That said, years of instruction about the horrors of "serviette", "pardon" etc.. have done their job...Because of my own feelings about my accent I worry that if I send my 2 to a private school they'll get a typical prep-school voice.. Silly maybe, but there you are.

Also, any views on boarding schools? I was at one from 8-14y and think they are nightmarish, not convinced that things can have changed much since I left school 6 years ago.

bayleaf · 04/04/2002 16:58

Hiya all!
Sorry if I got defensive Rozzy - something that I think comes quite naturally if you feel strongly about a topic!
I'm very unsure of the right vocabulary to discuss what we are talking about and there has been so much talking at cross purposes already on this thread - BUT....
The example I gave was one small example but some thing I hear constantly so I used it. The student WOULDN'T drop 'innit' because he/she was talking to a teacher - I merely remarked that he/she might drop it in written form.
Missing out the preposition 'to' is very characteristic of the local midlands 'grammer code'/dialect ( as I said I am unsure of the correct vocabulary tho I'm sure I studied it at uni all those years ago!)and is not ellision - it is just not said at all.
''I'm going town Saturday'' would be another common sentence.
As I've said before - fine talking on the bus with a mate - possibly NOT fine if employed in more formal situations...

Rozzy · 04/04/2002 18:12

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Paula1 · 04/04/2002 18:35

Rozzy, it does sound a little strange that you can be very anti private schooling, but consider sending your son there. For the record I am very pro private schooling and have done everything in my power to ensure that we will be able to afford to send ds (and another if we are lucky enough to have one)

Rozzy · 04/04/2002 18:53

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robinw · 04/04/2002 19:51

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Bozza · 04/04/2002 21:50

Robinw - I think you are right abut nurseries. In my area state nursery school starts at 3.5 years(not 2)for 2.5 hours a day 5 days a week. I am not sure whether (when the time comes) to send DS to the state nursery and remove him from his private nursery and also find an alternative form of childcare or leave him in his private nursery until reception age.

Especially because at the moment, due to lack of sufficient nursery places I could receive vouchers for 12.5 hours a week of nusery provision. However I would not consider this to be private education. When the time comes DS will be going to the local state primary which I am pleased to say is very local (ie two minutes walk) which I think is great for little ones.

Tinker · 04/04/2002 22:24

Robinw - my daughter went to the nursery that was attached to her local infant school when she was 3. Not sure if this is what you mean by state nurseries. I know of someone in Liverpol whose daughter went to a council nursery (I think this might be what you mean) and she wasn't in receipt of benefit. Liverpool seems to have a pretty progressive attitude towards providing nursery care to as many people as possible. With kids, obviously!

With regard to faith schools, I'm all in favour of my daughter learning about Christianity, and all other religions, as part of the religious studies part of the curriculum. But, since she is at a state school, I object to her being "taught" that God exists as a fact! Why can't she just be taught that a significant number of people believe that (that God exists) therefore it is obviously worthy of recognition. And leave it as a subject of discussion. I know it's to do with the 1945 Education Act etc and, i suppose, if you believe in God you can't imagine that children can be taught anything else because, for you, his existence IS the Truth. But surely that's why religious teachings should be kept outside of secular schools. Society has changed since 1945.

I think my main objection to the faith schools issue was hearing a non-believing friend saying that she was going to get her daughter christened in order to get her into a "better" school. When I said I would not do that, another (childless)friend said you should do anything for your kids. But to me, this was teaching that you should lie to get what you want. Maybe I'm very naive but I feel uncomfortable with that.

tigermoth and robin - you're both forgiven because I'm sure you're both thoroughly thoughtful parents. I'm sure you're right about there being a sense of community at faith schools but, I'm quite happy with the sense of community at my daughter's. (Maybe that's to do with the seemingly Born Again Christian head! Aaargh! I'm arguing with myself now!). I must admit the upside of going to a Catholic shool was that you got more days of - Holy Days of Obligation. Always thought that was one word for ages as a child!

tigermoth · 04/04/2002 22:35

RobinW, in answer to your question, state nurseries in my neck of the woods are open to all. You don't have to be on state benefit. Some only offer half days, some offer full days. The nursery voucher system gives you five free half days, whether you choose a private or state nursery. If your chosen nursery offers full days, you foot the bill for the rest. In the case of the state nursey that my toddler is down for, the rest is £25.00 or so a week.

Church schools AND elocution lessons - uncanny!

PS I can see the received pronounciation discussion has moved on somewhat, so I won't post more on this subject.

tigermoth · 04/04/2002 22:44

Thanks tinker for letting me off the hook! I think a sense of community and a strong moral code is an important attribute for any school, religious or not.

candy · 05/04/2002 22:25

Oh my god! Have just trawled quickly through all this having been away for some time. As a teacher in a so-called (at least in terms of results) "appalling state school" and knowing how damned hard myself and my colleagues work, I have found much of this debate deeply offensive. So teachers in state schools don't give up their time to do clubs? I work EVERY holiday on something; from extra revision groups, to taking pupils for picnics, to theatre trips to taking them out for meals with my own money - so don't give me that. And yes -our results are dreadful, and our pupils certainly don't speak Standard English but I would be more than happy for my own children to attend when they are old enough because I know that a) the teachers work so hard b) they girls will work or not work from their own self-motivation not from "good" or "bad" teachers c) myself and partner will be helping them as well and not leaving their education entirely up to school (I think parents have as much and probably more responsibility than teachers here)d) they will meet a more wide representation of the "real world" - and after all, this is what we're preparing them for.
So - recognition of teachers (and pupils) everywhere please - before I lose faith in Mumsnetters completely.

tigermoth · 05/04/2002 22:37

Candy, I can see that being a teacher yourself, you have have strong opinions on this subject.

Please, if you have the time, can you explain in more detail what you mean when you say 'I think parents have as much and probably more responsibility than teachers here' regarding educating your children outside of school?

I think it's an interesting point and I would like to see this explained from a teachers perspective.

Rozzy · 06/04/2002 11:39

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robinw · 06/04/2002 12:37

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