First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

[dietcokeisgreat]

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

I would not.
Because I have a boy and a girl and I'd want them to have the same chances

• and I rather like having dinner with them on a weeknight

I wouldn't either. Although I have to admit I might waver for a second or two! But many people don't object either to private schools or boarding, so would, I assume, leap at the chance.

I wouldn't either because I don't want them to board and because I want my sons and my daughter to attend the same school.

Hak
"or the people who were in that post office in Dublin in 1916...."
A cousin of mine was - well more accurately he died in the Easter Rising, I'd have to double check the location - there is a statue in his home town. How the other 23,432 people claimed by their relatives to have been there fitted in the building is a puzzle

Hmm... Outstanding?

What I understand by outstanding is all those children who've finished with Maths A'level before they're 10 - or similar. It honestly, honestly, honestly isn't necessary to have reached those dizzy heights to qualify for a bursary (not even a fabulous one) at the school everyone keeps mentioning. Trust me on this.

It does help to happen to be a child that teachers want to teach. And that, obviously, could mean anything and isn't restricted to any particular sector of society.

rabbitstew You already know, I'm sure, of the origins and founding principles of the school - so it seems a little unfair to speak of dredging up the rare examples.

Chaz- that's amazing! The exception that proves the rule. Or something.

Hakluyt, I do believe that a majority of parents wouldn't consider going for a 100% bursary at Eton even if they thought their DS had a chance of winning one.

Those (like us) lucky enough to have a choice about our DC's education worry ourselves stupid about:

Independent vs State - matter of principle?
Single sex or co-ed - does it matter?
Equivalent education for siblings - can we be fair?
Boarding or Day - would our DS cope with boarding/be happy?
Would DS fit in? Would we fit in (if independent?)
Etc

I think most parents would cross Eton off the list by question 4 (or much earlier ). And they should - they alone know what they care about and, more importantly, know their children.

Not unfair at all ZeroSumGameThingy - up to 70 boys out of a population of children in the UK of several million is insignificant in terms of improving the life chances of the vast majority of the population. It doesn't help, either, that the famous old Etonian movers and shakers we all hear about in the press, with the exception of the headmaster of Eton himself, are all from the privileged majority of the old Etonian community. Making colossally privileged, expensive public schools needs blind to a few children is not going to make society more fair, because the school's very existence requires massive inequalities to exist in order for the lucky few to, effectively, have their education funded by the even luckier few.

Still, it enables the rich minority to control the ebb and flow of things, which is, of course, just the way they like it.

Hakluyt - so if I'm understanding your post correctly re. Dublin GPO etc., you think that there are more claims to bursaries than there are actual bursaries?
What evidence do you have for that?

Just a hunch, dapplegrey, just a hunch!

Q: "It makes no difference to anybody else what we as parents choose to do."

Yes it does. It can matter. enormously. If your DS and mine are of identical intellect -say 'naturally B grade"; if we, the parents support our DSs identically- if, for all intents and purposes our DSs are identical... BUT mine goes to a 'sink' comp with classes full of chairchuckers, and manages to get B's, he's done bloody well. Yours, because you are richer than me, goes to a small, well equipped 'B-grade-and-above' selective private school with small classes who manage to wring a As out of him. There's one place available at uni to do a certain course,.

Who are they most likely to offer it to?

Does private education benefit all of us??

Tansie

What is one went to a "sink" comp and the other to an outstanding comp and there were no private schools in the equation?

Would you ban the outstanding comp to level the playing field for your child?

Do you agree that would have a negative effect for everyone?

I was just about to say what married has just said. That sand scenario would play out if the first child attended a sink school and the second an outstanding comp in an affluent catchment. Those children are no more subjected to chair throwing than those at the private school. Those children are also the ones come sept who are discussing their family trek through the Rockies or Barbados (2 true accounts) As I keep saying, private Vs affluent state is not the real issue. It really is good state Vs poor state.

The differences in state schools will only be properly addressed when politicians and their advisers are predominantly those who have been through the state system

therefore it is incredibly important that internships and crony recruitment by politicians and civil servants is ended

NancyJones As I keep saying, private Vs affluent state is not the real issue. It really is good state Vs poor state. I'm not sure I agree. I've seen plenty of posts where people feel there have been noticeable improvements made to their local state schools. I've not really seen much to demonstrate a change in the balance between state vs private. Just my opinion though.

Which are the poor state schools that are not poor because they are actual or effective secondary moderns?

Lets at least define which schools are such a problem.

SecMod (official or unofficial) schools will only get better when selection in State schools is abolished.

So, which are the non SecMod poor state schools ? Name one.

NancyJones, that's right. Many state schools are brilliant, some are awful. Let's get that sorted (and, if we do, there will be many fewer independents).

rabbitstew, I think you'll find there's only one Old Etonian in the Cabinet (Cameron). Yes, lots of public school men but the Etonian tag is lazy. This Cabinet has got as many OE's as Harold Wilson's Labour team in 1964).

Mumtryingherbest, I'm not sure what you're saying. I live in an area where a high percentage of the parents who use the state sector could afford to use the private sector. Therefore, their children at at a primary and then a secondary which raises thousands at each school fayre. Where the kids are all in pristine uniform and eat healthy food. Where they all live in large houses with large gardens and travel frequently. These kids come to school ready and eager to learn. Their broader education is supplemented by regular trips to theatres and museums. They participate in a host of extra curricular activities most of which are far out of reach for the kids attending the sink comp Their teachers have massively high academic expectations of them and are their parents are pushy and informed. These kids do not have to share classrooms with kids who swear at teachers and throw stuff around the room. There schools are not spending vast amounts of money on behavioural support staff. Instead their funding goes on further enhancing the experience of kids they teach through top notch facilities for stuff like IT, D&T, photography etc. they are also able to offer Alevels in subjects such as Classics. I have taught in both and as a parent I have experienced the private sector and I can tell you now it is very clear to me where the biggest gulf lies.

Apologies for typos both spelling and grammar.

NancyJones Mumtryingherbest, I'm not sure what you're saying. you really didn't understand - I've seen plenty of posts where people feel there have been noticeable improvements made to their local state schools.? Am I correct in assuming you are referring to the very same posts with the examples you have given?

Aww, bollocks. Our prime minister didn't go to a really good state comprehensive, did he?

I'm not sure I get NancyJones' argument at all. Why on earth is the "real" issue good, affluent state schools vs poor state schools, leaving private schools out of it? I'm not sure why private schools aren't an issue when the whole argument you are making appears to be that some people are better off than others and that the better off actively choose not to send their children to school with the less well off. Or was it a slip of the keyboard to refer to affluent catchments when referring to good schools, thus implying that you don't get good schools in poor areas?

Sorry, I'm still not understanding the point. Of course there has been many improvements made to many schools. Some schools, with the right funding and management support, can change from sink to excellent. I'm not disputing that. My point is that in tea if attainment and overall experience if education in thus country there is a far greater gulf between an outstanding state school in an affluent and a failing school in a difficult area than there is between that same outstanding/affluent school and the private school up the road from it.

there is a far greater gulf between an outstanding state school in an affluent and a failing school in a difficult area than there is between that same outstanding/affluent school and the private school up the road from it

Indeed.
Please name one of these schools that is so poor.