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Original poster

First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

999 replies

dietcokeisgreat · 07/10/2014 14:12

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 10/10/2014 12:29

The sad thing is, schools just reflect society. The wider the gulf between rich and poor in society, the wider the gulf between schools. The more colossal the differences between the needs and desires of the richest and poorest, the harder it is to educate them all under the same roof and the harder it is to enable social mobility. You eventually get to a point where the wealthy condescend to help a tiny few who fulfil their personally set criteria and the rest just have to put up, shut up and know their place. It's not until the wealthy and powerful genuinely start to suffer themselves (eg too many workers dying of avoidable diseases, their own families at risk from diseases spread by poverty and ignorance, or world wars killing off all social classes) that people start to remember that a more fair society might actually be quite nice for everyone, and they discover more clarity on how that might genuinely be achieved. It all just goes to show how little we have really "all been in it together" in the global recession. We wouldn't all be behaving as we are now if we have all been in it together.

Hakluyt · 10/10/2014 12:33

"Hakluyt - you might not be intending to disadvantage the middle achievers at your ds' school but by seeking out extension activities for the high achievers and better university options for them (because you have a high achieving ds) you are not focusing on how to get a C grade student to a B grade student are you?"

You do seem to believe you have an extraordinarily detailed knowledge of my life and my involvement with my son's school. I am so sorry to have to tell you that it is wildly inaccurate. And, as I said, extremely offensive.

MumTryingHerBest · 10/10/2014 12:37

Clavinova Your area: Parmiter's (outstanding) - pupils making expected progress in English and maths 91%-96% - Francis Combe (requires improvement) same postcode as Parmiter's but expected progress 30% lower. What the stats. don't show you is that local parents actually favour Francis Combe over Westfield (some parents who are allocated Westfield go private because the school has a bad reputation). Many parents who choose Francis Combe do not put their children in for the 11 plus and many actually put it as a first option on their CAF. A very high number of children at Francis combe got to the same school that their parents went to (yes I do know children who go there along with their parents).

Parmiters with average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is C+
Watford Boys average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is C+
St Clement Danes average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is C+
Rickmansworth average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is C
Queens average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is C
Francis Combe average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is D+
Bushey Academy average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is D+
Westfield average grade per GCSE for middle achievers is D-

I draw your attention to those in bold. Rickmansworth and Queens are part of the consortium (as are Watford boys and Parmiters). They are academically selective yet I do not think that middle achievers are performing significantly better at these schools.

Dapplegrey · 10/10/2014 12:38

"You do seem to believe you have an extraordinarily detailed knowledge of my life and my involvement with my son's school. I am so sorry to have to tell you that it is wildly inaccurate. And, as I said, extremely offensive."

Hakluyt - you give opinions on aspects of private schools, your evidence for which is merely "a hunch"
I have a hunch that you can dish it out but you can't take it.

rabbitstew · 10/10/2014 12:40

Meow.

feelingmellow · 10/10/2014 12:51

Tansie-so in your view it's ok for Londoners to send their doc to private school.

That'sreliefbecause that's what we've done ??

feelingmellow · 10/10/2014 12:52

Oops - Dc not doc

MumTryingHerBest · 10/10/2014 12:53

Clavinova another point to note:

Parmiters FSM 4.6%
Watford FSM 3.6%
St Clement Danes FSM 2.0%
Rickmansworth FSM 3.6%
Queens FSM 6.7%
Francis Combe FSM 16.3%
Bushey Academy FSM 21%
Westfield FSM 17.5%

Hakluyt · 10/10/2014 13:03

[grin]@dapplegrey

Clavinova · 10/10/2014 13:08

Hakluyt - I thought I'd guessed the school from your previous nickname and town (perhaps wrongly) but any details regarding your involvement in your ds' school is mainly what you've been posting on here over the last few days - I've no idea of your real identity nor do I wish to know.

MumTryingHerBest - well I suppose a C is better than a D. Perhaps we should concentrate on progress in English and maths and value added?
I'm still shocked at how bad the schools are in Salford.

Hakluyt · 10/10/2014 13:12

Oh, and dapplegrey- I just checked back. My "just a hunch" remark was nothing to do with an opinion on any aspect of private education. It was about my opinion of some members of the human race and their tendency to over egg their puddings to support their arguments.

Clavinova · 10/10/2014 13:15

MumTryingHerBest - the FSM stats just go to show how socially divisive the state school system is within the same postcodes!

Hakluyt · 10/10/2014 13:17

'any details regarding your involvement in your ds' school is mainly what you've been posting on here over the last few days"

And you extrapolated from one specific question about facilitating subjects for RG universities that I am only interested in high attainers at my son's school. Do you also extrapolate from the fact that I recently posted about my dog that I don't have a cat? You could also extrapolate from a recent post about my involvement with children at my son's school who have reading ages a good 4 years behind their actual age that I am only interested in low attainers...............

rabbitstew · 10/10/2014 13:25

That reminds me of the joke about the man, logic lessons and the lawnmower...

MumTryingHerBest · 10/10/2014 13:27

Clavinova - MumTryingHerBest - the FSM stats just go to show how socially divisive the state school system is within the same postcodes! Fully agree and it does demonstrate the affect of selective intakes.

Clavinova · 10/10/2014 13:35

Hakluyt - I guess my choice of words has hit a raw nerve by accident.

I suppose the strength of your convictions will be tested again when you decide whether or not your ds will stay for sixth form in 2/3 years time. Do you support the school or transfer to a grammar school? I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

Original poster
dietcokeisgreat · 10/10/2014 13:41

Wow, 417 posts on my first thread. I have nothing useful to add, but this was a worthwhile post as i now have a list if everyones points on both sectors to refer to when needed!

I can't imagine if we decided to send my 'normal, likely average' DS to a private school that our local primary/area would suffer his absence. They are oversubscribed and bursting at the seams from conversations with my neighbours the last few days!

I think i will be visiting the four state primaries kids round here tend to get allocated (i recognise doesnt mean they are the schools one might choose and one is miles away) and four prep schools within our city (max 10-15mins drive). Then i can think sensibly about it.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 10/10/2014 13:48

Clavinova- if the 6th form at his school offers whichever subjects he wants to do then why would he move? Unless he wants to leave school and go to college instead. Which I would advise him against- I am a firm believer in school 6th forms. But that will be up to him.

MumTryingHerBest · 10/10/2014 13:50

dietcokeisgreat I think i will be visiting the four state primaries kids round here tend to get allocated (i recognise doesnt mean they are the schools one might choose and one is miles away) and four prep schools within our city (max 10-15mins drive). Then i can think sensibly about it. Sounds like you are going through the motions but have already made your mind up. Sorry if that's not the case but that's how your post comes across to me.

TalkinPeace · 10/10/2014 14:00

Picking up on a point up thread about how much money is spent per pupil on state school pupils :
here is the master data set

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=NAT&superview=sec&view=cfr&set=2&tab=23&no=999&sort=cfr_13.totalexpenditure&ord=asc

National Median £5,671
Note that the lowest spenders are Middle schools (No GCSE labs)

MumTryingHerBest · 10/10/2014 14:00

dietcokeisgreat You may have already read this but something you might want to discuss with the schools you visit:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2205492-unresolved-set-problem

capsium · 10/10/2014 14:15

I still would not wish to live in a country where opting out of State Education were not allowed as in against the law, though. Even though I send my DC to State School and a comprehensive at that.

I can see circumstances where State just is not suitable, because you want children to board, or you all travel and you employ tutors, or home school, or perhaps because of SEN a Private Special School is the only one which caters to your child's particular need.

I sort of think what do we want to earn lots of money for if we cannot give our children, at least, better start in life? Not that Private is always better. However I think it must remain as a choice, unless you would go as far as being Communist really...

I would not want to give the Government more power over our lives....

ChocolateWombat · 10/10/2014 14:37

The strength if everyone's convictions are tested, when they have some choice. The strength of those convictions are especially tested when some of the state options are very poor.

So, if your nearest school is a sink Comp/secondary modern (depending if it is a grammar school area or not, or even a super selective area) but nearby there are grammar schools that your child could get into, or private schools that you could afford.......do you still go for the sink comp, to support your principles? That is when the rubber hits the road.

As I said before, I suspect most people arguing strongly against grammar, faith school, private etc are still not attending the bottom rung of schools. So their principles have not led them to those disappointing schools, but actually something quite decent. Perhaps they would have come less principled if the obvious state option was a sink school in special measures??

ChocolateWombat · 10/10/2014 14:41

Oh, and what's the point of taking offense at comments on here, especially if you are quite happy to make remarks which others might find offensive themselves, If you come On an Internet forum for a frank exchange of views, people will disagree with you, and probably in a less subtle way than in real life. I think we all just need relatively thick skins if we want to discuss these issues, and also to accept that sometimes the things we say can be misconstrued.

capsium · 10/10/2014 14:46

Although I think I prefer a Comprehensive ethos to a two tier system. A school that is genuinely ambitious, even when there are Grammars in competition. Lovely. People that actively choose to work there, ditto. I don't like the attitude that segregates children based on academic ability.. I see Private more as opting out of State for a variety of reasons. Some would be more honourable than others - this is a given but I believe there should exist a choice to do this.